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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,880 Views)
bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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Quote:
 
Not sure of the battle name, but there is this battle to consider that happened on May 7:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?460314-Osaka-May-7th-1615-The-greatest-victory-ever-in-the-Se-no-Japanese-history!


Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!

That said, maybe I'm just tired and can't see it right the sarcasm right now, but your post seems to be taking this battle seriously?

It's pretty much Masamune's most embarrassing moment, not to mention it's an incredibly small skirmish to begin with that barely even involves Tokugawa vs Toyotomi as it's just Masamune screwing up and killing his own forces that were so confused that they weren't fighting back. I can't ever see something like this getting In unless they want to show masamune as an idiot(well...the idiot he was) or a ruthless traitor(which he also was...but these points are neither here nor there, not for this discussion anyway).

Also gotta say I don't really understand all the hype around Osaka justifying Hideyori's addition, it's not like Osaka is the only siege that could be split into multiple stages to justify one-campaign character additions. All of Hideyoshi's campaigns post Yamazaki could easily be split into multiple battles, Osaka isn't unique in this regard. Hideyoshi's Shikoku campaign for example was a war that took place on 3 different fronts initially before convening onto a single point, It could be split into 4-5 battles all on its own.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, we could easily get someone that was at Osaka castle as well as literally any other campaign and we'd get more value from them than we would Hideyori.

Oh, and I must add that after reading your post, Osaka really does see, like it'd make for a fun series of battles once we have the proper additions(I never noticed how varied it was in terms of generals sharing the spotlight, nice to know that it won't be a 24/7 Yukimura show once we start getting guys like Morichika, Matabei, and a Satake.
Edited by bluefiend, Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:07 am.
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Amakusa
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:34 am
Rance
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:58 am
Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:33 am
Ōsaka can barely be more than two battles (if more than one at all), there is absolutely no reason to add two useless characters just because of a single event when multiple others can contribute MUCH more than them.
Osaka featured the deployment of tens of thousands of troops on both sides in two campaigns. I have no idea why you think it should only be two battles tops.
I don't know, maybe because thats how its always been: ONE battle. And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway.
Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:33 am
snip
Now I ask you, do YOU seriously believe they'll give that much detail to this or any battle at all?
Well if you're going to go that far you don't have any further interest in the game.

This is going to come as a shock to you, but it's not just Osaka that's a condensed series of battles, and if you think it's not possible to un-condense them then there's no use discussing this with you.
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Zai Tong
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Valamanj
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:44 am
Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:34 am
]I don't know, maybe because thats how its always been: ONE battle. And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway.
Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:33 am
snip
Now I ask you, do YOU seriously believe they'll give that much detail to this or any battle at all?
If I remember correctly, didn't Chronicles on the 3DS have Osaka as two campaigns? I could be wrong, but I feel like it did...

Either way, I don't see how them expanding upon Osaka in this game would be so far-fetched. The game is Sanada-centric, after all, and Yukimura's stand at Osaka is pretty much what he's most famous for.
Yes they did winter and summer
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Rance
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I don't know, maybe because thats how its always been: ONE battle. And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway.


Chronicles did have it as two campaigns as Valamanj says. And also, this entire argument doesn't make much sense. You're basically saying that Osaka needs to only be one battle just because that's how it's been in the past. We've also never had a Sanada centric game in the past, and Osaka happens to be a very Sanada flavored event. At the very least, we'll probably be seeing Winter and Summer, but I think it's more likely we'll be seeing a whole lot more than that.
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Mark Robin
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Regards or not, I like to see Osaka into two parts, one for winter and summer. It will be more interesting in my opinion, but I'm guessing that Koei will make it one.

I'm guessing that there will be no news again since we only see Masayuki Sanada apperance.
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Rance
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I feel that it should be more than two parts, as it actually consisted of several battles. Presuming of course that they plan to add more characters to the defenders side, they easily have a huge roster of available characters to use for these battles. They might as well make use of them.
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Fūma
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Katatonia
Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:13 pm
I forgot about him, yeah, especially when he's supposed to be 25 with a 16-17 year old daughter :lol:
Yep. At the moment Gracia looks more like Mitsuhide's younger sister than his daughter :P A young Mitsuhide didn't look out of place in early games because Gracia wasn't part of the roster back then, but now I feel they really need to age him up a bit, especially if the aging system is carried to SW5.

Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:44 am
AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:05 pm
Both Hideyori and Hidetada at this point are most possible additions due to them appearing in anime.
Hell, no, they are not. If anything, they are among the ones who have the least chance.
The least chance? AntonKutovoi not only made a good point about them appearing in the anime, but another reason why they have a high chance is because this focuses on Yukimura and as such 2nd siege of Ueda and the entire Osaka Campaign are likely to be major parts of the story. Now, neither of the two are necessary a must, but they make a lot of sense in the context here.

CrimsonRonin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:45 am
So how many new characters does everyone think we will get? I'm gonna say 4 or 5. We got masayuki so probably one or two osaka buddies for yuki maybe matebei or morichika or both. I would imagine a new female character so either akihime or one of the sanada sisters maybe. Would be nice for one takeda character but i doubt it so sasuke or saizo to round it out.
I suppose if the statement of "multiple new characters" is true, I'd say Matabei, Morichika, Lady Yodo, Akihime, Hideyori and Hidetada are among the most likely ones. Morichika would be my main choice because on top of his role at Osaka he'd already be the Chosokabe add ready for the next game.

bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:35 am
Rance
Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:11 am
It really doesn't. It's an almost purely aesthetic feature that does practically nothing in concrete terms for the gameplay. It's the equivalent of KOEI adding fancy hats to the game and you lavishing praise on them for their brilliant innovation. While yes, fancy hats are nice and so is aging, I don't see how they add "depth" at all.
This. I've never understood the want for aging characters, everyone that plays the games knows characters are aging and that time is passing so why should koei bother wasting their time by creating 2-3 character models per character?
Because it'd be a nice touch to add realism? Doesn't it look ridiculous how we have e.g Ieyasu look the same at Osaka (1615) as he does way back in Okehazama (1560)?

It's not even difficult to implement because stuff like facial hair already does the job fine, though more noticeable changes like outfits should be part of it too (like young Hideyoshi looking like his SW1 peasant-samurai incarnation, while old Hideyoshi looking more like his SW2 conqueror counterpart).

But as I've highlighted before, they should be only cosmetic changes and stuff like altering the movesets based on the character model is not necessary (though if they have enough time & resources to do it, then why not).

Zai Tong
Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:06 am
Koei needs to allow that age to effect kanetsugu too it be a little weird with him not aging alongside Yukimura since he was there for Osaka as well
Even more so if they want to keep introducing him at Kawanakajima already. I'd be curious to see what an old Kanetsugu would look like :lol:

Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:33 am
*Osaka campaign stage list
Great job! That list alone shows how much more they can flesh out Osaka. Just one battle alone has never been enough. I'd argue having the winter and summer sieges as separate battles should be the bare minimum and thankfully they've already done it in Chronicle. And I'm with Rance that it should probably be more than 2 battles, I'd say there's enough potential to expand it up to, say, 4 battles.

Since this game is about Yukimura and Osaka campaign is the most important part of his story arc, there's really no legit reason to cram it to just 1 battle. And if it was multiple conflicts in history and each has plenty of potential to be adapted for a playable battle, why not? Osaka Campaign provides the closure for the story and involves a large amount of characters in the Tokugawa siege so it should be expanded anyway.

This is also where they can highlight the advantages of the aging system because the campaign took place 14 years after Sekigahara, which means everyone has gotten noticeably older during that time. Like, even Takatora was almost 60 during Osaka whereas in the games he looks like he's in his 20's.
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wodash
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bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:53 am
Quote:
 
Not sure of the battle name, but there is this battle to consider that happened on May 7:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?460314-Osaka-May-7th-1615-The-greatest-victory-ever-in-the-Se-no-Japanese-history!


Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!
^this looks like something SW1 Masamune would've done randomly in SW, man i miss that kid, the later versions of SW Masamune(including Wo) was just a big fail compared to the SW1 incarnation which was so random and volatile that nobody wants anything to do with him(and would've been THE character Kojuuro can actually baybsit on and not look awkward).

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Makörë
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What part of "And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway." did you not see?
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Fūma
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:50 pm
What part of "And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway." did you not see?
If you understand the context of this game, you'll see why it makes sense to do so. Would they make stuff like old Yukimura just for 1 stage? Of course not. Osaka campaign itself will likely be the entire third act of the game and not just one measly 15-20 minutes stage like in the past games. To flesh it out, Hideyori is a good addition to the roster because this time he's probably going to be much more prominent than before, as he's likely to get quite a lot of screentime. So I fail to see how one can say he has low chance of being added when he's one of the key characters of the campaign.

This game really is the best opportunity to finally do justice to the Osaka Campaign. As many have said before, it actually consists several conflicts that at best could be expanded to 7-8 full-fledged battles. And yes, they can do the splitting/expanding to other battle too if necessary. In fact, they already said Kawanakajima is going to be split into multiple stages. But it's only necessary for the battles that are going to be highlighted here, such as the Osaka campaign. Not every battle needs to be expanded into more than 1 stage.
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AntonKutovoi
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Osaka will have a castle town of it's own, so Siege of Osaka obviousy going to be large this time and will consist of multiple stages.
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bluefiend
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Am I the only one that would prefer Yodo and Oeyo to Hideyori and Hidetada? I mean even if Hidetada and Hideyori did make okay-ish additions to Sanada-maru they'd still be terrible additions to the series overall as they'll basically be 1-2 battle figures in a regular SW game. in contrast to Yodo and Oeyo who are both around for much longer and have far more connections than their son and husband. The only issue you could say they have is how old they'd look around Oichi and Nagamasa... which could easily be fixed with facial hair according to Fuuma.
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Sanada
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bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:53 am
Quote:
 
Not sure of the battle name, but there is this battle to consider that happened on May 7:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?460314-Osaka-May-7th-1615-The-greatest-victory-ever-in-the-Se-no-Japanese-history!


Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!

That said, maybe I'm just tired and can't see it right the sarcasm right now, but your post seems to be taking this battle seriously?
You know, thinking back to how SW2 handled Masamune, attacking Edo after being inspired by Yukimura, it's possible they could use that battle and spin it as an intentional assistance.

I have yet to play SW4, so not sure how they are handled in that (and forget for SW3 as I just disliked that game), but while it is unlikely to be a fully fledged battle, I could see them using it as an event within a battle, since Warriors battles are often a fusion of events within their battles anyway, even if not all fitting that specific one. The 4th battle of Kawanakajima often having elements from some of the others if I remember right for example.

It just depends how Koei wants to go with this really, right now everything is very speculation heavy anyway.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:53 am
Quote:
 
Not sure of the battle name, but there is this battle to consider that happened on May 7:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?460314-Osaka-May-7th-1615-The-greatest-victory-ever-in-the-Se-no-Japanese-history!


Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!

That said, maybe I'm just tired and can't see it right the sarcasm right now, but your post seems to be taking this battle seriously?

It's pretty much Masamune's most embarrassing moment, not to mention it's an incredibly small skirmish to begin with that barely even involves Tokugawa vs Toyotomi as it's just Masamune screwing up and killing his own forces that were so confused that they weren't fighting back. I can't ever see something like this getting In unless they want to show masamune as an idiot(well...the idiot he was) or a ruthless traitor(which he also was...but these points are neither here nor there, not for this discussion anyway).
Yeah, I didn't mean it as a 100% serious suggestion, I just found it too hilarious not to share. Was a bit tired at the time, and I would've made my sarcasm more obvious if I wasn't.

And I love reading Ying's stuff. Wish I kept in contact with her (him? them? Not 100% sure...)

bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:56 pm
Am I the only one that would prefer Yodo and Oeyo to Hideyori and Hidetada? I mean even if Hidetada and Hideyori did make okay-ish additions to Sanada-maru they'd still be terrible additions to the series overall as they'll basically be 1-2 battle figures in a regular SW game. in contrast to Yodo and Oeyo who are both around for much longer and have far more connections than their son and husband. The only issue you could say they have is how old they'd look around Oichi and Nagamasa... which could easily be fixed with facial hair according to Fuuma.
I would love Yodo, but Hideyori and Hidetada seem much more likely to me solely because they already have defined characters and appearances. All they'd really need now are movesets.

Regarding why Osaka means people want Hideyori... for me I just think Koei's Hideyori is a really cool character. I'd love to see him fleshed out more, treated like a proper addition. As a historical figure he's not too impressive outside of the utter sadness of his whole damn life (like his grandma incidentally), but as a character that we've seen... he's deffo top ten material for me. He's suave, smarmy, but without being a true dick about it. He's not super confident in himself and just wants what's best for people. And he's... uh... well...

I won't lie I think he's hot.
Posted Image
:wub:
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Valamanj
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Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:26 pm
Regarding why Osaka means people want Hideyori... for me I just think Koei's Hideyori is a really cool character. I'd love to see him fleshed out more, treated like a proper addition. As a historical figure he's not too impressive outside of the utter sadness of his whole damn life (like his grandma incidentally), but as a character that we've seen... he's deffo top ten material for me. He's suave, smarmy, but without being a true dick about it. He's not super confident in himself and just wants what's best for people.
I haven't watched the SW anime, but just from what I hear about Hideyori (like from AntonKutovoi's little snippet about him sassing Ieyasu), I like him already! I think he'd fit well enough in this game with all the drama going on during the time when he was actually important.
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Fūma
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bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:56 pm
Am I the only one that would prefer Yodo and Oeyo to Hideyori and Hidetada? I mean even if Hidetada and Hideyori did make okay-ish additions to Sanada-maru they'd still be terrible additions to the series overall as they'll basically be 1-2 battle figures in a regular SW game. in contrast to Yodo and Oeyo who are both around for much longer and have far more connections than their son and husband. The only issue you could say they have is how old they'd look around Oichi and Nagamasa... which could easily be fixed with facial hair according to Fuuma.
I'm come to a conclusion that there's no logic in your choice of additions, you call characters terrible who actually have potential and then suggest some nonsense characters that contribute literally nothing to the game and are not even popular. Like you say Morichika is a terrible choice yet suggest some nobody Chosokabes who practically nobody is familiar with. I'm glad you don't work for Koei as you seem to dismiss most of the popular and requested characters like Yoshiaki, Matsu and Tadaoki simply because they don't fit to your weird criteria when it comes to new character candidates.

And I'm sorry, but saying "Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!" sounds incredibly self-centered and lame. I really have hard time finding a statement that makes a person sound more full of himself than that.

Good day.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Wow calm down Fuuma, he's just super versed in the Sengoku era, and found it cool someone else knew about it. I don't find it self-centered at all.
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bluefiend
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Fuuma
Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:48 pm
bluefiend
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:56 pm
Am I the only one that would prefer Yodo and Oeyo to Hideyori and Hidetada? I mean even if Hidetada and Hideyori did make okay-ish additions to Sanada-maru they'd still be terrible additions to the series overall as they'll basically be 1-2 battle figures in a regular SW game. in contrast to Yodo and Oeyo who are both around for much longer and have far more connections than their son and husband. The only issue you could say they have is how old they'd look around Oichi and Nagamasa... which could easily be fixed with facial hair according to Fuuma.
I'm come to a conclusion that there's no logic in your choice of additions, you call characters terrible who actually have potential and then suggest some nonsense characters that contribute literally nothing to the game and are not even popular. Like you say Morichika is a terrible choice yet suggest some nobody Chosokabes who practically nobody is familiar with. I'm glad you don't work for Koei as you seem to dismiss most of the popular and requested characters like Yoshiaki, Matsu and Tadaoki simply because they don't fit to your weird criteria when it comes to new character candidates.

And I'm sorry, but saying "Haha wow! can't believe someone else managed to find that without me pointing it out!" sounds incredibly self-centered and lame. I really have hard time finding a statement that makes a person sound more full of himself than that.

Good day.
Just because someone is popular doesn't make them a good choice. Likewise just because someone is a relative unknown here doesn't make them bad. Just look at Koshosho, only like 2 people knew about her before she was revealed, but she ended up being a great choice as she could serve as a consistent enemy for the Chosokabe who generally lacks them.

Also, you do realize Morichika was born in 1575? That means he wasn't even fighting when Nobuchika was killed at Kyushu as he was only 11 or 12. The guy would only be able to participate in Odawara, Sekigahara, and Kyushu historically(that said, I'm still all for ensembling him with someone else or extending his life backwards) that means he can't even be there for the Chosokabe clan story, do you really consider that a good choice?

Also, I don't think my criteria is all that weird. I'm only looking for characters with longevity and connections(in terms of female characters) + battles if they're male. I also like to look at when exactly someone serves a clan and what time period for that clan needs the most help. For example the Chosokabe clearly need the most help during their rise to power right now as they only have Motochika. This is a negative as this is the time when the games are supposed to focus on the Chosokabe clan, after this period the clan itself becomes a part of a large conglomerate of clans under the Toyotomi and thusly becomes less important as a whole due to lessened focus. The Date on the other hand have a similar but contrasting problem, they have playable characters, but don't have any consistent enemies to fight and give their opponents a face+personality resulting in the Date characters having no antagonistic characters to bounce off of. Guy's like Yoshihige Satake fixes this problem whereas guys like Yoshiaki don't.

Also, no matter how much you dislike it Yoshiaki Mogami(he's a good choice in general as he helps the post Kenshin Uesugi though and has a number of good battles himself) is still a terrible choice for expanding the Date(they share one battle).

As for Matsu and Tadaoki, I'm fine with both of them as additions. There might be other characters I prefer to them, but I'm okay with both of them.

+ the Azai sisters(with Takatsugu and Tatsuko Kyogoku) fill pretty much all of my criteria for choosing new adds and turns it up to 11 with a massive network of connections and they even as females get to be involved in certain campaigns(it's marginal of course, but for female characters that's pretty huge...well except for Yodo her role at Osaka is huge); I'll be arguing for them till the end of time. Get used to it.

That all said, you've got me interested: What are you criteria for choosing new characters? What are everyone else's?

As for the last bit of your post; think what you will of me, who knows you might even be right, but as I am the object of analysis any opinion I could give on the subject would likely be biased so I leave that opinion to you(and anyone else that wishes to judge me).

@Mew: Ty!
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Makörë
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I know what his criteria is: "Hideyori is in that anime nobody watched, he is a good add." Its not like his mother was the REAL commander of the battle, has much more connection and a much bigger lifespan, as well as higher character potential.
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Beelzebub
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Guys, all of you need to stop being so rude. Bluefiend tried to keep things peaceful but then you butted in and are about to cause a lot of more negativity.

Anyways, when I choose a character, I just mainly choose who I am interested in, for example Hideyori, Matabei etc. My knowledge is pretty limited and I like who I like but I do not go out and witchhunt someone just because I don't agree with their choice like some people here are doing, so let us just stop this now.
Edited by Beelzebub, Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:28 am.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

Anyone notice how Hideyori looks like Nene?

Good games, Koei. Because according to Koei, he's Nene's son.
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Makörë
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Katatonia
Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:34 am
Anyone notice how Hideyori looks like Nene?

Good games, Koei. Because according to Koei, he's Nene's son.
The only resemblance he has to Nene is his hair color. You know who he reminds me of more? Nagamasa and Oichi.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

He's got Nene's face, too, but I do see a resemblance to both Oichi and Nagamasa. Which reminds me, anyone remember this hilarious scene?

A shock for Oichi

Sorry for going off-topic, guys, but I needed to break the arguing in here :)
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bluefiend
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True^ plus both Oichi has brown hair, it wouldn't be at all strange for Hideyori to inherit that even if Yodo has Nagamasa's blonde locks.

As for Hideyori calling Nene mother, well technically she's his stepmother so that problem pretty much solves itself.

Actually speaking of Nene, anybody think we'll actually get to see her support the Tokugawa side this time? I was disappointed she wasn't in SW4's Osaka campaign. Then again without Hideyori, Yodo, or Tatsuko Kyogoku I suppose there might not be much point as she's not connected to anyone on the Toyotomi side?
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Mark Robin
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As of adding with Tokugawa Hidetada and Toyotomi Hideyori, I personally leave them as UNPC for time being because I have no idea if they are going to add characters with Sanada Clan only or connection with clan like Takeda and/or Tokugawa Clans.

However, if Koei adds them, it will be be different story, which with those two add, it might increase of chance of adding Yodo... or was it Cha-Cha?
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