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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
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Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,868 Views)
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The Outsider
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:51 pm
Post #751
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I think kid Masamune returning is a given with the incorporation of an age system, I think it'll be pretty cool for them to bring his original style back. However, I don't think it'll be coming back for 'Sanada-Maru' and probably SW5 instead.
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Ryō Genken
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:55 pm
Post #752
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Oichi's kid form can come back too, but..i don't know if i'm gonna like that LoliChi. I'm pretty disturbed actually.
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The Outsider
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
Post #753
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I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl.
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Ryō Genken
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:03 pm
Post #754
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- MCG
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl. But the kendama.. It's too good to be gone. There needs to be some successor of sort.
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Manjiimortal
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:12 pm
Post #755
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- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:34 pm
- Manjiimortal
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:00 pm
I'd prefer Yoshishige rather than Yoshinobu, they'd just have to prolong Yoshishige's life to Osaka (it's just 2 or 3 years anyway) and so you can have him team-up with Masamune after fighting him for so long.
Yoshihige is a better overall add true, but for a game that's focused primarily on Osaka and Sekigahara/Ueda(The Satake actually sent 300 troops to the Tokugawa side at the 2nd siege of Ueda) makes this Yoshinobu's best chance to get in. Yoshihige on the other hand can easily justify being added to a mainline title. So why not throw in Yoshinobu here where he'd be useful, then add his dad in SW5. That way the Satake would also already have a nicely built up force and be capable of fighting/allying with the Hojo/Uesugi/Takeda and the Date later on as well. Would be a nice way to get the Satake in without having them take up too many spots in character addition spots in any one game. On his side Yoshinobu has the fact he was born in 1570, so it isn't ridiculous to have him fight the Date between 85 and 89, but the fact he sat out during Sekigahara is a bit of an issue I think, plus while his father is arguably Masamune's greatest enemy, and I still think he should appear at Hasedo in one last attempt to fight Masamune, Yoshinobu lacks that extra spark.
I see your point but I think Yoshishige works well alone, both as an opponent for the Date as well as for the Hojo (he was frequently allied with the Uesugi, the Utsunomiya, the Satomi and other regional clans from Kanto against the Hojo).
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CrimsonRonin
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:33 pm
Post #756
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I think two good additions would be Matabei Goto and Nagamasa Kuroda, Goto because he gives yukimura a buddy at osaka and Kuroda could be a buddy to Nobuyuki but better is Goto was taken in by the Kuroda family so you could have a brotherly rivalry between Goto and Kuroda and for reasons unknown Goto left the Kuroda and joined the toyotomi side at osaka. Could add more dynamic story to osaka with them too against each other. Other cool thing is Kurodas forces are the ones that killed sakon at Sekigahara.
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Ryō Genken
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:48 pm
Post #757
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My personal wish is to get Saizo & Sasuke added in this game, because Ninjas have been grossly neglected lately in SW. They need some loves too.
But i know it won't happen..but who is a good one to be added? Mori Katsunaga & Shigenari Kimura maybe?
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Manjiimortal
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:04 pm
Post #758
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Ninjas haven't been neglected enough IMO.
Both Katsunaga and Shigenari are very specific Osaka adds, Shigenari in particular as that's the only battle he fought (Kastunaga was at Oshi Castle as well as the Korean Invasions apparently). I think Katsunaga as a slight edge, but Shigenari's role is very romanticized.
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Zai Tong
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:35 pm
Post #759
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- MCG
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl. Huh in sw2 she acted like a grown woman that was when she actually stood out in all the SW games
then after 2 she was back to being innocent childish and just nagamasa wife
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Fūma
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:06 pm
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- Ryō Genken
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:03 pm
- MCG
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl.
But the kendama..  It's too good to be gone. There needs to be some successor of sort. Exactly. It really should've been Chacha's weapon and I'm surprised they passed that excellent and clever chance to bring it back here after being gone so long.
Would've been fun to see SW2's Oichi's kendama moveset receive new moves based on the current moveset system: spirit charge, ultimate musou, regular musou finisher, hyper attacks and so on.
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Mark Robin
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:17 pm
Post #761
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- Fuuma
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:06 pm
- Ryō Genken
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:03 pm
- MCG
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl.
But the kendama..  It's too good to be gone. There needs to be some successor of sort.
Exactly. It really should've been Chacha's weapon and I'm surprised they passed that excellent and clever chance to bring it back here after being gone so long. Would've been fun to see SW2's Oichi's kendama moveset receive new moves based on the current moveset system: spirit charge, ultimate musou, regular musou finisher, hyper attacks and so on. Kendama will be nice to bring it back along with weapons which haven't been appear since SW1... which I think it was Masamune's wooden sword. (However, I bet few will be mad about it.)
As long Koei modify the weapon to the point that will be fun to play, I'm all for it.
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Makörë
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:01 pm
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We don't even know what Chacha's weapon is gonna be, why there are complaints about what it should have been?
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Rance
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:21 pm
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- Makörin
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:33 pm
- Rance
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:56 am
I think Hidetada is a worthwhile addition personally. He has an obviously important role in a large number of battles, especially the second siege of Ueda. I see it likely that he would end up being a joke or joke-y character too, which I am personally fond of. I personally believe he is a much better choice than Hideyori.
IN terms of Tokugawa adds for Osaka, it's hard to say other than Hidetada. I remember there was one badass on the Tokugawa side who killed like 50+ people, but I forget his name. Ii Naotaka and the Hachisuke and Maeda were fairly significant in the siege, but probably too unimportant overall to bother adding to the series. I think it's more important to expound upon the defender side.
Hidetada is only slightly less useless than Hideyori. Instead of being limited to one battle, he is limited to two, and his position is always covered by someone. They could add anyone else that appeared before Ueda as well and be better. A good example? Otsu Ōno, she served Hideyoshi (Nobunaga too, I think?) and then became a concubine to Nobuyuki, and is connected to a lot of people. You keep thinking that Osaka is one battle. How many times do people need to point out that it was two campaigns and several battles? The entire thing is very likely to be expanded into more than two stages in this game given the very nature of this title.
They could have Hidetada at Odawara too and it wouldn't be a gigantic stretch. He was sent as a hostage to Hideyoshi during that campaign, an important role in cementing alliance between the Toyotomi and Tokugawa houses.
- CrimsonRonin
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:33 pm
I think two good additions would be Matabei Goto and Nagamasa Kuroda, Goto because he gives yukimura a buddy at osaka and Kuroda could be a buddy to Nobuyuki but better is Goto was taken in by the Kuroda family so you could have a brotherly rivalry between Goto and Kuroda and for reasons unknown Goto left the Kuroda and joined the toyotomi side at osaka. Could add more dynamic story to osaka with them too against each other. Other cool thing is Kurodas forces are the ones that killed sakon at Sekigahara. I like this idea.
Edited by Rance, Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:25 pm.
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SRS
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:14 pm
Post #764
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Master of the War Trident
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While I like Nagamasa and his solar panel helmet, I think he's a bit low on the "needed" list. If the game was about Sekigahara, then I would support his addition since he was one of the main frontline generals for the Eastern Army, but this is about the Sanada.
Matabei would be a decent enough addition. Not my first pick for an Osaka Defender(Morichika and Teruzumi are) but I wouldn't complain.
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Makörë
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:16 pm
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- Rance
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:21 pm
You keep thinking that Osaka is one battle. How many times do people need to point out that it was two campaigns and several battles? The entire thing is very likely to be expanded into more than two stages in this game given the very nature of this title. It doesn't matter how many campaigns it was in real life, its not gonna be the same thing in SW, it never was, it never is. Ösaka, in Sanada-maru, is, at best, three battles, and that is a BIG stretch. As such, he is equally insignificant, and won't be added for slightly less reason than Hideyori, but still similar enough.
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bluefiend
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:18 am
Post #766
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- Manjiimortal
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:12 pm
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:34 pm
- Manjiimortal
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:00 pm
I'd prefer Yoshishige rather than Yoshinobu, they'd just have to prolong Yoshishige's life to Osaka (it's just 2 or 3 years anyway) and so you can have him team-up with Masamune after fighting him for so long.
Yoshihige is a better overall add true, but for a game that's focused primarily on Osaka and Sekigahara/Ueda(The Satake actually sent 300 troops to the Tokugawa side at the 2nd siege of Ueda) makes this Yoshinobu's best chance to get in. Yoshihige on the other hand can easily justify being added to a mainline title. So why not throw in Yoshinobu here where he'd be useful, then add his dad in SW5. That way the Satake would also already have a nicely built up force and be capable of fighting/allying with the Hojo/Uesugi/Takeda and the Date later on as well. Would be a nice way to get the Satake in without having them take up too many spots in character addition spots in any one game.
On his side Yoshinobu has the fact he was born in 1570, so it isn't ridiculous to have him fight the Date between 85 and 89, but the fact he sat out during Sekigahara is a bit of an issue I think, plus while his father is arguably Masamune's greatest enemy, and I still think he should appear at Hasedo in one last attempt to fight Masamune, Yoshinobu lacks that extra spark. I see your point but I think Yoshishige works well alone, both as an opponent for the Date as well as for the Hojo (he was frequently allied with the Uesugi, the Utsunomiya, the Satomi and other regional clans from Kanto against the Hojo). Yoshinobu sitting out Sekigahara is a bit of an issue true, but I've read that he sent 300 troops to either Hidetada at Ueda or to one of the sides at Hasedo under the command of one of his brothers(whom insisted that he be allowed to go), so he could easily appear at one of those. That said considering he'd fight Masamune so often aside from Sekigahara it's not all that big of an issue, it's just one less stage and he gets Osaka to make up for it(plenty of characters are only in like one Sekigahara stage but aren't in Osaka at all).
I agree Yoshihige could work well alone, but he'd work even better with at least one ally. I also don't think Yoshinobu lacks any sort of spark. In fact I think he, his father, and Masamune could have a great dynamic. Masamune could be the son Yoshihige never had prompting Yoshinobu to be jealous and all that might entail, Or Yoshinobu could end up being jealous of Masamune's eventual growth compared to his own stagnation as a warlord, Or maybe Masamune could be jealous of the fact that Yoshinobu still has his father, etc. Plus there's also the fact that he could be compared to the younger generation constantly, that being Masamune, Kagekatsu, and Ujimasa.
Also while Yoshihige is a great add, my thing is, he's a great all around add. We can add him into any SW game(except this one) and he'll be a good choice. Yoshinobu on the other hand loses a lot of relevance as an add if he doesn't get in to Sanada-Maru.
- CrimsonRonin
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:33 pm
I think two good additions would be Matabei Goto and Nagamasa Kuroda, Goto because he gives yukimura a buddy at osaka and Kuroda could be a buddy to Nobuyuki but better is Goto was taken in by the Kuroda family so you could have a brotherly rivalry between Goto and Kuroda and for reasons unknown Goto left the Kuroda and joined the toyotomi side at osaka. Could add more dynamic story to osaka with them too against each other. Other cool thing is Kurodas forces are the ones that killed sakon at Sekigahara. I like this idea!
Edited by bluefiend, Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:20 am.
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Manjiimortal
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:26 am
Post #767
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If Yoshishige must have someone else then let it be Ota Sukemasa, the most fierce and persistent of all Hojo enemies, whom lived long enough to see them fall and has the added bonus of having been a Uesugi retainer for several years before getting with the Satake.
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bluefiend
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:30 am
Post #768
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- Zai Tong
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:35 pm
- MCG
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:02 pm
I'd rather Oichi's younger version get skipped over to be honest, that was pretty horrible especially in SW2 where she looked older but still acted like a really little girl.
Huh in sw2 she acted like a grown woman that was when she actually stood out in all the SW games then after 2 she was back to being innocent childish and just nagamasa wife I think you guys have it backwards.
In SW1 she was incredibly optimistic which made her stand out amongst everyone else.
In SW2 she was older, but basically acted depressed by comparison(never really trying to stop Nobunaga and Nagamasa from fighting, feeling resigned from doing anything other than telling Nagamasa she loves him).
Compared to her never give up attitude in SW1, a personality trait no one else in the series has had since. If Ohatsu ever gets in I hope she takes after SW1 Oichi. Between the Oda/Azai conflict, Komaki conflict, Sekigahara conflict, and Osaka conflict she'd be perfect for it as she has family on both sides during all of those battles. Only problem with Ota Sukemasa is that he covers the same territory as Yoshihige; Yoshinobu at the very least gives us something different with Sekigahara and Osaka.
Plus the thing is, we're still talking Sanada-Maru here and Yoshihige really doesn't offer Sanada-Maru as much as Yoshinobu. If this were SW5 I'd be fully behind you though.
That said, Ota Sukemasa looks like he'd make for a really fun choice. I also love it when people fight under a force then later on decide that they'd rather fight against them and put up a die hard resistance against them like he does with the hojo. It really makes things personal and causes their opposition to whomever they are fighting make more sense as they have first hand experience with that clan and so can tell us exactly why they don't like the idea of their former lords taking over(like Mitsuhide always gets to do with Nobunaga).
Ota Sukemasa is also someone I could definitely support as a main game addition, but unfortunately, he has little place in Sanada-Maru. But really I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the Satake in this case.
Also forgot to mention for what it's worth, Yoshihige was married to one of Terumune Date's sisters, and Yoshinobu was their son making him and Masamune cousins and Yoshihige his uncle-in-law(Yoshiaki Mogami isn't the only one with familial relations!).
Edited by bluefiend, Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:52 am.
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Nobunaga -1194
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:32 am
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I am really happy that they are releasing this game , I always liked games with few characters with more depth to it , unlike 60 characters and maybe you won't get much cut scenes etc .. for your favorite character and be satisfied with it .
I think Yukimura is very suitable to build a game around him , I like him both histrionically and in games .Tadakatsu would be cool too .
I don't care if the game will lean toward fiction more or not .
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Incorrigible King
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:17 am
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- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:50 pm
Spoiler: click to toggle - Incorrigible King
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:42 pm
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:10 am
While it's true Hidetada is a better choice than Hideyori, he's only slightly better, as the only thing he has over Hideyori is Ueda in 1600. As for Ina being at Mikatagahara well one she's a woman, the metrics for getting women into the games is different from men, and two although nobuyuki and Yukimura didn't fight at Mikatagahara they had at least been born by then...
That said your totally right about historical accuracy being able to be thrown out of the window. But even so I'd rather we just get Hidetada's wife and Chacha's sister Oeyo. Why bother with Hidetada who has a limited number of battles relationships and connections when we could get Oeyo who while still having a limited number of battles at least has a boatload of strong connections(Nene, Chacha, Ieyasu, Nagamasa, Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Matsu, Katsuie, Munenori, Ina etc.) to help make her more interesting/give her more to do.
Actually come to think of it, does anyone actually think the Tokugawa side of Osaka is going to get anyone? We've already got two needs adds for the Sanada/Toyotomi side of things, think they'll get any new opposition?
The Battle of Mikatagahara was in 1573 and Yukimura was born in 1567, meaning that Yukimura was only six years old. His older brother was born in 1566, making him only one year older at seven. So while they are older than Ina, they are likewise too young to have participated at Mikatagahara. Regardless of gender, I hold the three them in the same light. Hidetada could participate in the Battle of Mikatagahara, The Battle of Nagashino, The First Battle of Ueda, Komaki-Nagakute, Conquest of Odawara, the Second Battle of Ueda, and the Osaka Campaign, and who knows how many other battles they might stuff him in. His connections would be Ina (possibly fostering a crush on her until she’s married to Nobuyuki), Nobuyuki (brother-in-law since Ina was adopted by Ieyasu), Yukimura (self-professed rival), Munenori (advisor), Ieyasu (obvious) with a possible rivalry with the Uesugi as the conducted operations against them. I won’t lie and say that Oeyo wouldn’t be a better add by sheer connections alone. However, Hidetada’s character is more or less established thanks to the anime and would be much easier to transition whereas they would have to work with Oeyo from scratch. Personally I would love if all three of Oichi's daughters made the cut. Would add some drama at Osaka where Chacha is forced to fight both Oeyo and Ohatsu; so brutal!
eh, idk, that seems like a bit of a slippery slope, if we can just add Hidetada in to fight in battles before he was even born then we could just do it for literally anybody. I'd be fine with that for some characters like say Morichika as the Chosokabe doesn't have too many options and he can simply ape brother's achievements. But the Tokugawa has a plethora of characters already and also has a number of other good additons remaining, it'd be kind of weak to essentially get a totally fictional character in place of any of them. That said your also right about Hidetada being easier because he already has a character but.... I don't like him so... OMG YES! I would totally love to have all 3 of the Azai sisters in the game! there is so much potential drama there! Komaki, Otsu castle, Shizugatake, Yamazaki, and Osaka would all benefit from having all 3. Also, even better than Chacha fighting Oeyo and Ohatsu at Osaka is that they could easily put Ohatsu into a position where she has to choose between the Toyotomi and Tokugawa sides(she was basically a neutral negotiator during the Siege of Osaka, shuffling back and forth between the two sides), they could even make the info Ohatsu ends up having on both sides be the deciding factor in which side wins. KT has already added characters in battles they weren’t even born yet to participate in. Munenori Yagyu represents the Yagyu’s servitude to Hisahide, but Munenori wasn’t born until 1571, yet he’s with Hisahide at the Seige of Inaba Castle which didn’t happen until 1567 and never mind you that Hisahide never participated in that battle anyway. I realize Nobunaga’s Ascent just combined all of his skirmishes on his way to the capital, but they congregated everything at Inaba Castle. I don’t even need to touch on Okuni since she wasn’t born until 1572. So again, KT throws historical accuracy out the window for fun times, which I’m not arguing against. It is fun. As far as the Tokugawa have a ton of characters as is, I will concede to that. However, many of the Tokugawa characters have a flat personality to tell the truth. I love them, but they are one-dimensional. Hidetada in the anime was hilarious. He showed off something the Tokugawa lacks: personality. He struts around believing in his own professed superiority thanks to being Ieyasu’s son. He belittles others and always has that swarmy smirk on his face. For me, personally, seeing his character grow from pompous braggart with minimal skill to an actual leader sounds good.
On to the matter of Oichi’s daughters, it would be an interesting mechanic if at Osaka, hypothetically speaking, Ohatsu is a yellow colored soldier and the pull of the battle actually decides whether she goes with the Tokugawa or Toyotomi since she’s smack dab in the middle. I do have to wonder if Ohatsu or Oeyo are going to appear in Sanada Maru. I suppose they won’t since they are shipping a friendship with Yukimura and Chacha. Though I guess we won’t be getting Sasuke Sarutobi anytime soon.
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wodash
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:54 am
Post #771
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undefeated in all directions
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- Ryō Genken
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:40 pm
but who knows, if we'll be getting a slingshot & bokken instead.  how the heck would he fire dual slingshots for his musou
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bluefiend
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:05 am
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- Incorrigible King
- Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:17 am
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:50 pm
Spoiler: click to toggle - Incorrigible King
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:42 pm
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:10 am
While it's true Hidetada is a better choice than Hideyori, he's only slightly better, as the only thing he has over Hideyori is Ueda in 1600. As for Ina being at Mikatagahara well one she's a woman, the metrics for getting women into the games is different from men, and two although nobuyuki and Yukimura didn't fight at Mikatagahara they had at least been born by then...
That said your totally right about historical accuracy being able to be thrown out of the window. But even so I'd rather we just get Hidetada's wife and Chacha's sister Oeyo. Why bother with Hidetada who has a limited number of battles relationships and connections when we could get Oeyo who while still having a limited number of battles at least has a boatload of strong connections(Nene, Chacha, Ieyasu, Nagamasa, Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Matsu, Katsuie, Munenori, Ina etc.) to help make her more interesting/give her more to do.
Actually come to think of it, does anyone actually think the Tokugawa side of Osaka is going to get anyone? We've already got two needs adds for the Sanada/Toyotomi side of things, think they'll get any new opposition?
The Battle of Mikatagahara was in 1573 and Yukimura was born in 1567, meaning that Yukimura was only six years old. His older brother was born in 1566, making him only one year older at seven. So while they are older than Ina, they are likewise too young to have participated at Mikatagahara. Regardless of gender, I hold the three them in the same light. Hidetada could participate in the Battle of Mikatagahara, The Battle of Nagashino, The First Battle of Ueda, Komaki-Nagakute, Conquest of Odawara, the Second Battle of Ueda, and the Osaka Campaign, and who knows how many other battles they might stuff him in. His connections would be Ina (possibly fostering a crush on her until she’s married to Nobuyuki), Nobuyuki (brother-in-law since Ina was adopted by Ieyasu), Yukimura (self-professed rival), Munenori (advisor), Ieyasu (obvious) with a possible rivalry with the Uesugi as the conducted operations against them. I won’t lie and say that Oeyo wouldn’t be a better add by sheer connections alone. However, Hidetada’s character is more or less established thanks to the anime and would be much easier to transition whereas they would have to work with Oeyo from scratch. Personally I would love if all three of Oichi's daughters made the cut. Would add some drama at Osaka where Chacha is forced to fight both Oeyo and Ohatsu; so brutal!
eh, idk, that seems like a bit of a slippery slope, if we can just add Hidetada in to fight in battles before he was even born then we could just do it for literally anybody. I'd be fine with that for some characters like say Morichika as the Chosokabe doesn't have too many options and he can simply ape brother's achievements. But the Tokugawa has a plethora of characters already and also has a number of other good additons remaining, it'd be kind of weak to essentially get a totally fictional character in place of any of them. That said your also right about Hidetada being easier because he already has a character but.... I don't like him so... OMG YES! I would totally love to have all 3 of the Azai sisters in the game! there is so much potential drama there! Komaki, Otsu castle, Shizugatake, Yamazaki, and Osaka would all benefit from having all 3. Also, even better than Chacha fighting Oeyo and Ohatsu at Osaka is that they could easily put Ohatsu into a position where she has to choose between the Toyotomi and Tokugawa sides(she was basically a neutral negotiator during the Siege of Osaka, shuffling back and forth between the two sides), they could even make the info Ohatsu ends up having on both sides be the deciding factor in which side wins.
KT has already added characters in battles they weren’t even born yet to participate in. Munenori Yagyu represents the Yagyu’s servitude to Hisahide, but Munenori wasn’t born until 1571, yet he’s with Hisahide at the Seige of Inaba Castle which didn’t happen until 1567 and never mind you that Hisahide never participated in that battle anyway. I realize Nobunaga’s Ascent just combined all of his skirmishes on his way to the capital, but they congregated everything at Inaba Castle. I don’t even need to touch on Okuni since she wasn’t born until 1572. So again, KT throws historical accuracy out the window for fun times, which I’m not arguing against. It is fun. As far as the Tokugawa have a ton of characters as is, I will concede to that. However, many of the Tokugawa characters have a flat personality to tell the truth. I love them, but they are one-dimensional. Hidetada in the anime was hilarious. He showed off something the Tokugawa lacks: personality. He struts around believing in his own professed superiority thanks to being Ieyasu’s son. He belittles others and always has that swarmy smirk on his face. For me, personally, seeing his character grow from pompous braggart with minimal skill to an actual leader sounds good. On to the matter of Oichi’s daughters, it would be an interesting mechanic if at Osaka, hypothetically speaking, Ohatsu is a yellow colored soldier and the pull of the battle actually decides whether she goes with the Tokugawa or Toyotomi since she’s smack dab in the middle. I do have to wonder if Ohatsu or Oeyo are going to appear in Sanada Maru. I suppose they won’t since they are shipping a friendship with Yukimura and Chacha. Though I guess we won’t be getting Sasuke Sarutobi anytime soon. This is all true. But in the case of Munenori it's obvious that he's an ensemble character taking the place of his father(or grandfather, I forget which) as Munenori himself isn't worth an addition to the series otherwise, meanwhile Munenori's father is also a rather limited addition, so the only way to justify them both was to have one of them ensemble both of them, Similar to how Yoshitsugu ensemble with his father by serving the Azai or how Ranmaru sometimes ensembles his own father and/or brother.
In Hidetada's case he wouldn't be ensembling anyone, he'd just be appearing in places that he was never at, making him an entirely fictional character sans Ueda and Osaka. As for Hisahide appearing at Inaba castle, you've already mentioned it's an ensemble stage yourself, where it ends isn't actually important.
That said I do agree that the Tokugawa are mostly pretty boring except for Ina. I will also say that I don't mind characters appearing earlier than they were born or before they were fighting too much if they're just ensembling a family member(s) that was actually fighting in that time period but isn't worth an addition themselves. .
But in Hidetada's case we'd just be straight up making stuff up, and if we start doing that then this series might as well start doing it's story the same way as Sengoku Basara adding random characters and throwing them into whatever events.
As for Okuni...well she needs something to do, plus she's a woman, we kind of have to make exceptions for them because they didn't actually fight, which is why I haven't really addressed your Ina complaint.
All that said if Hidetada did get in and they gave him a bunch of made up stuff but did it well, I'd probably stop complaining after seeing it was well done. But my other problem with mostly fictional additions like Hidetada is their's no guarantee they'll stick to the fictional storyline they create. Like with Ranmaru, in his first game they gave him a great storyline about being stuck between Mitsuhide and Nobunaga, then after that first game dropped the idea and Ranmaru has been entirely useless ever since.
And I absolutely love your idea for Ohatsu at Osaka! It's perfect considering her role and relationships(lol I had forgotten about the third army mechanic).
Your probably right about us not getting the other Azai sisters this game though. Which I'm fine with, I can wait on them. Plus they're all pretty major additions at least in terms of storyline for the females, honestly once the three Azai sisters are in you could have an all female story mode just based on their relationships around each other and Nene, as the trials, tribulations and relationship drama they all go through is dynamic enough to support it. Especially if Kyogoku Tatsuko(chacha's best friend; Ohatsu's sister in law; also Hideyoshi's 3rd concubine but that info wouldn't be necessary in game) + Matsu Maeda are in too.
@wodash: with his mouth silly, he'd call it the dragon's bad breath attack
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Incorrigible King
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:54 am
Post #773
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- bluefiend
- Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:05 am
Spoiler: click to toggle - Incorrigible King
- Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:17 am
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:50 pm
Spoiler: click to toggle - Incorrigible King
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:42 pm
- bluefiend
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:10 am
While it's true Hidetada is a better choice than Hideyori, he's only slightly better, as the only thing he has over Hideyori is Ueda in 1600. As for Ina being at Mikatagahara well one she's a woman, the metrics for getting women into the games is different from men, and two although nobuyuki and Yukimura didn't fight at Mikatagahara they had at least been born by then...
That said your totally right about historical accuracy being able to be thrown out of the window. But even so I'd rather we just get Hidetada's wife and Chacha's sister Oeyo. Why bother with Hidetada who has a limited number of battles relationships and connections when we could get Oeyo who while still having a limited number of battles at least has a boatload of strong connections(Nene, Chacha, Ieyasu, Nagamasa, Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, Matsu, Katsuie, Munenori, Ina etc.) to help make her more interesting/give her more to do.
Actually come to think of it, does anyone actually think the Tokugawa side of Osaka is going to get anyone? We've already got two needs adds for the Sanada/Toyotomi side of things, think they'll get any new opposition?
The Battle of Mikatagahara was in 1573 and Yukimura was born in 1567, meaning that Yukimura was only six years old. His older brother was born in 1566, making him only one year older at seven. So while they are older than Ina, they are likewise too young to have participated at Mikatagahara. Regardless of gender, I hold the three them in the same light. Hidetada could participate in the Battle of Mikatagahara, The Battle of Nagashino, The First Battle of Ueda, Komaki-Nagakute, Conquest of Odawara, the Second Battle of Ueda, and the Osaka Campaign, and who knows how many other battles they might stuff him in. His connections would be Ina (possibly fostering a crush on her until she’s married to Nobuyuki), Nobuyuki (brother-in-law since Ina was adopted by Ieyasu), Yukimura (self-professed rival), Munenori (advisor), Ieyasu (obvious) with a possible rivalry with the Uesugi as the conducted operations against them. I won’t lie and say that Oeyo wouldn’t be a better add by sheer connections alone. However, Hidetada’s character is more or less established thanks to the anime and would be much easier to transition whereas they would have to work with Oeyo from scratch. Personally I would love if all three of Oichi's daughters made the cut. Would add some drama at Osaka where Chacha is forced to fight both Oeyo and Ohatsu; so brutal!
eh, idk, that seems like a bit of a slippery slope, if we can just add Hidetada in to fight in battles before he was even born then we could just do it for literally anybody. I'd be fine with that for some characters like say Morichika as the Chosokabe doesn't have too many options and he can simply ape brother's achievements. But the Tokugawa has a plethora of characters already and also has a number of other good additons remaining, it'd be kind of weak to essentially get a totally fictional character in place of any of them. That said your also right about Hidetada being easier because he already has a character but.... I don't like him so... OMG YES! I would totally love to have all 3 of the Azai sisters in the game! there is so much potential drama there! Komaki, Otsu castle, Shizugatake, Yamazaki, and Osaka would all benefit from having all 3. Also, even better than Chacha fighting Oeyo and Ohatsu at Osaka is that they could easily put Ohatsu into a position where she has to choose between the Toyotomi and Tokugawa sides(she was basically a neutral negotiator during the Siege of Osaka, shuffling back and forth between the two sides), they could even make the info Ohatsu ends up having on both sides be the deciding factor in which side wins.
KT has already added characters in battles they weren’t even born yet to participate in. Munenori Yagyu represents the Yagyu’s servitude to Hisahide, but Munenori wasn’t born until 1571, yet he’s with Hisahide at the Seige of Inaba Castle which didn’t happen until 1567 and never mind you that Hisahide never participated in that battle anyway. I realize Nobunaga’s Ascent just combined all of his skirmishes on his way to the capital, but they congregated everything at Inaba Castle. I don’t even need to touch on Okuni since she wasn’t born until 1572. So again, KT throws historical accuracy out the window for fun times, which I’m not arguing against. It is fun. As far as the Tokugawa have a ton of characters as is, I will concede to that. However, many of the Tokugawa characters have a flat personality to tell the truth. I love them, but they are one-dimensional. Hidetada in the anime was hilarious. He showed off something the Tokugawa lacks: personality. He struts around believing in his own professed superiority thanks to being Ieyasu’s son. He belittles others and always has that swarmy smirk on his face. For me, personally, seeing his character grow from pompous braggart with minimal skill to an actual leader sounds good. On to the matter of Oichi’s daughters, it would be an interesting mechanic if at Osaka, hypothetically speaking, Ohatsu is a yellow colored soldier and the pull of the battle actually decides whether she goes with the Tokugawa or Toyotomi since she’s smack dab in the middle. I do have to wonder if Ohatsu or Oeyo are going to appear in Sanada Maru. I suppose they won’t since they are shipping a friendship with Yukimura and Chacha. Though I guess we won’t be getting Sasuke Sarutobi anytime soon.
This is all true. But in the case of Munenori it's obvious that he's an ensemble character taking the place of his father(or grandfather, I forget which) as Munenori himself isn't worth an addition to the series otherwise, meanwhile Munenori's father is also a rather limited addition, so the only way to justify them both was to have one of them ensemble both of them, Similar to how Yoshitsugu ensemble with his father by serving the Azai or how Ranmaru sometimes ensembles his own father and/or brother. In Hidetada's case he wouldn't be ensembling anyone, he'd just be appearing in places that he was never at, making him an entirely fictional character sans Ueda and Osaka. As for Hisahide appearing at Inaba castle, you've already mentioned it's an ensemble stage yourself, where it ends isn't actually important. That said I do agree that the Tokugawa are mostly pretty boring except for Ina. I will also say that I don't mind characters appearing earlier than they were born or before they were fighting too much if they're just ensembling a family member(s) that was actually fighting in that time period but isn't worth an addition themselves. . But in Hidetada's case we'd just be straight up making stuff up, and if we start doing that then this series might as well start doing it's story the same way as Sengoku Basara adding random characters and throwing them into whatever events. As for Okuni...well she needs something to do, plus she's a woman, we kind of have to make exceptions for them because they didn't actually fight, which is why I haven't really addressed your Ina complaint. All that said if Hidetada did get in and they gave him a bunch of made up stuff but did it well, I'd probably stop complaining after seeing it was well done. But my other problem with mostly fictional additions like Hidetada is their's no guarantee they'll stick to the fictional storyline they create. Like with Ranmaru, in his first game they gave him a great storyline about being stuck between Mitsuhide and Nobunaga, then after that first game dropped the idea and Ranmaru has been entirely useless ever since. And I absolutely love your idea for Ohatsu at Osaka! It's perfect considering her role and relationships(lol I had forgotten about the third army mechanic). Your probably right about us not getting the other Azai sisters this game though. Which I'm fine with, I can wait on them. Plus they're all pretty major additions at least in terms of storyline for the females, honestly once the three Azai sisters are in you could have an all female story mode just based on their relationships around each other and Nene, as the trials, tribulations and relationship drama they all go through is dynamic enough to support it. Especially if Kyogoku Tatsuko(chacha's best friend; Ohatsu's sister in law; also Hideyoshi's 3rd concubine but that info wouldn't be necessary in game) + Matsu Maeda are in too. @wodash: with his mouth silly, he'd call it the dragon's bad breath attack I’m well aware of KT’s problem with keeping up with their storylines. SW2 & SW3 emphasized a rivalry between Kanetsugu and Masamune and I rather like that storyline. It was piety vs. ambition and the two of them always came to a head. With the introduction of Kagekatsu (an introduction I love), that plot has been dropped. While there are more similarities between Masamune and Kagekatsu that has yet to be explored within the plot, Masamune vs. Kanetsugu was so suddenly dropped it made me a bit sad. So I understand where you’re coming from in that regard.
On the matter of Sanada Maru’s plot, I do have to wonder how many liberties they’ll be taking. This is KT and liberties will obviously be taken for the sake of fun. But just how many liberties at that?
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Rance
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:26 am
Post #774
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- Makörin
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:16 pm
- Rance
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:21 pm
You keep thinking that Osaka is one battle. How many times do people need to point out that it was two campaigns and several battles? The entire thing is very likely to be expanded into more than two stages in this game given the very nature of this title.
It doesn't matter how many campaigns it was in real life, its not gonna be the same thing in SW, it never was, it never is. Ösaka, in Sanada-maru, is, at best, three battles, and that is a BIG stretch. As such, he is equally insignificant, and won't be added for slightly less reason than Hideyori, but still similar enough. It's going to be at least 3 battles in this game, or else KOEI is making a gigantic mistake. It's one of the largest conflicts of the era, with probably upwards of 100,000 troops on both sides. It specifically pertains to Yukimura and they've already added Cha Cha to the game as well. They have a design for Yukimura specifically for when he reaches this stage in his life.
The argument that "it's been this way before so it will be this way now" does not work. KOEI has never made a game as focused as Sanada Maru before. Throw that argument out the window.
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AntonKutovoi
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:05 am
Post #775
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- Makörin
- Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:16 pm
It doesn't matter how many campaigns it was in real life, its not gonna be the same thing in SW, it never was, it never is. Ösaka, in Sanada-maru, is, at best, three battles, and that is a BIG stretch. And Kawanakajima always was one battle in SW series, which is not a case in this game. Why are you so sure that Osaka will be represented with only a three battles?
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