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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,865 Views)
Crimson Moon
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Mm. I'm a little confused why people don't include Takatora when they talk about Tokugawa characters.

Anyway, Takatora more or less has a huge role in Osaka. He could act as Ieyasu's second-in-command there if Hidetada wont be added in this game.
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wodash
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Crimson Moon
Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:17 pm
Mm. I'm a little confused why people don't include Takatora when they talk about Tokugawa characters.

Anyway, Takatora more or less has a huge role in Osaka. He could act as Ieyasu's second-in-command there if Hidetada wont be added in this game.
because Takatora is already an SW character? :uh: it's a no brainer that any relevant character will appear in relevant stages where they actually also take part in historically

the speculations are more for characters that aren't even in SW yet or does not have a unique moveset/weapon, Takatora had been in SW since SWC2, which is FIVE games back

Edited by wodash, Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:19 pm.
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Fūma
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Takatora is still fairly new though, most players used him for the first time in SW4.
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Crimson Moon
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wodash
Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:17 pm
Crimson Moon
Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:17 pm
Mm. I'm a little confused why people don't include Takatora when they talk about Tokugawa characters.

Anyway, Takatora more or less has a huge role in Osaka. He could act as Ieyasu's second-in-command there if Hidetada wont be added in this game.
because Takatora is already an SW character? :uh: it's a no brainer that any relevant character will appear in relevant stages where they actually also take part in historically

the speculations are more for characters that aren't even in SW yet or does not have a unique moveset/weapon, Takatora had been in SW since SWC2, which is FIVE games back

That's not what I meant. I mean that when everyone was calling all Tokugawa characters boring, none of them bother mentioning Takatora at all in the discussion.
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SRS
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If we count Takatora, then we can count Masamune too then.
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The Outsider
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^
Slight difference between the two but nevermind.

Yeah I tend to forget about Takatora unfortunately, not because I dislike him but just because he doesn't seem to fit right in with the Tokugawa group. He seems to be portrayed deliberately as a floater.
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Fūma
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That's actually good because he served a lot of different daimyos and probably felt a warrior should serve many daimyos during his career. I mean he isn't even supposed to be the kind of character who swears loyalty to one daimyo 'till the end of his life. Even in the games he serves Azai, Oda, Toyotomi and Tokugawa although the Oda phase isn't very apparent.

To me he always struck as a character who didn't have the need to belong to a certain faction for lifetime so I guess they succeeded.
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wodash
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he partakes in the Osaka siege tho, and that's the only thing that matters when discussing about who will appear in the battle :wacko:
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Fūma
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I don't exactly remember if he was present in 1st siege of Ueda in SW4, but I think we see him there too in the story campaign.
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bluefiend
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MCG
Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:35 pm
^
Slight difference between the two but nevermind.

Yeah I tend to forget about Takatora unfortunately, not because I dislike him but just because he doesn't seem to fit right in with the Tokugawa group. He seems to be portrayed deliberately as a floater.
Takatora joined the Tokugawa the same time as Masamune: at Sekigahara.

Although that information isn't necessarily relevant now, it could be in the future considering Koei is fine with mixing up, breaking, changing, and replacing relationships. That is to say this could end up being the only SW game where Takatora joins the Tokugawa early and every other game he might follow his historical route of serving the Toyotomi from the mid 1570s to 1598 or so.

Actually come to think of it, SW4 Takatora almost exactly follows Oeyo's historical path...from starting out with the Azai, to joining the Tokugawa at Komaki-Nagakute, to becoming a Toyotomi retainer once again after Komaki(though on a technicality in his case), then back to serving the Tokugawa again at Sekigahara and Osaka. The only real difference is that Oeyo would spend some time under the Oda after Nagamasa's death.(which they could omit the same way they omitted this part from Takatora's story in SW4 even though he served them in SWC2; though I really hope they wouldn't do that to her, too many potentially interesting relationships to miss out on).

Also I'm confused, where does the whole Takatora having many masters thing come from? As far as I can see he served the Azai, then the Hashiba/Toyotomi both while they were under the Oda and Hideyoshi himself all the way up until Sekigahara until he finally switched to the Tokugawa. That's only 3 masters and those are the 3 that just about everyone served under?

Oh and I think Takatora being in the game already makes Morichika more likely to appear.
Edited by bluefiend, Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:16 pm.
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Fūma
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In SW4 Takatora has already joined Tokugawa by the time of Komaki-Nagakute (1584), but it could be because they wanted him and Yoshitsugu fight against each other before Sekigahara too.
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Amakusa
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bluefiend
Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:08 pm
Also I'm confused, where does the whole Takatora having many masters thing come from? As far as I can see he served the Azai, then the Hashiba/Toyotomi both while they were under the Oda and Hideyoshi himself all the way up until Sekigahara until he finally switched to the Tokugawa. That's only 3 masters and those are the 3 that just about everyone served under?
The seven lords thing is attributed to historical Takatora's own opinion of the samurai lifestyle, although in most accounts in English you can only readily find about 3-4 of them: Nobusumi Tsuda (Oda), Hidenaga Hashiba, then later Hideyoshi (I'm not so certain of this), Ieyasu Tokugawa. Mostly because his most distinguished service was under Hidenaga and Ieyasu.

His Azai service record is mostly a footnote on his background.
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SRS
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Takatora served multiple masters, but many were under the same major daimyo(such as when he served under Isono Kazumasa shortly before serving Tsuda Nobusumi; at this point the Azai was destroyer and Kazumasa was serving the Oda.)

If you only count major daimyo, then Takatora served the Azai, Oda, Toyotomi and Tokugawa. If you count the specific lords he served, that number rises to eleven(from Nagamasa to Tokugawa Iemitsu.)
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Crimson Moon
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Takatora was unique that he served many lords in his career. But it seems that he was the closest to Ieyasu compared to the other lords. If I am not mistaken he was very close to Ieyasu during his later years and became one of his trusted advisers.

I'm not sure if there were other retainers that Ieyasu trusted as much who joined him after Sekigahara. Ieyasu never liked Masamune and he usually distanced himself from former Toyotomi daimyo. Alot of Takatora's more well-known exploits was when he served Ieyasu. (Although he did serve as one of Hideyoshi's top admirals during the Korean Campaign).

I guess that's why he feels more Tokugawa-esque at least according to me lol.
Edited by Crimson Moon, Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:57 am.
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Amakusa
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Crimson Moon
Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:50 am
Takatora was unique that he served many lords in his career. But it seems that he was the closest to Ieyasu compared to the other lords. If I am not mistaken he was very close to Ieyasu during his later years and became one of his trusted advisers.
It's true Takatora benefited a ton by serving the Tokugawa (he was a part of Shogun Hidetada's circle which made him one of the power players), but I feel he made his name while serving under Hidenaga.
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Crimson Moon
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Oh yeah. He did do alot for Hidenaga that's true.

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Zai Tong
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During sw4 Osaka battle I was a little Shocked there was no dialogue for nobuyuki's two sons who were there they were near the main camp like hey that's your uncle charging at u and yukimuras son I didn't even know he had a son who died at Osaka

and now apparently Masayuki had 2 living brothers one who died 1606 the other 1632

Then masayukis uncle yasawa clan had a son who sided with Tokugawa

Edited by Zai Tong, Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:29 am.
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wodash
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Zai Tong
Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:29 am
During sw4 Osaka battle I was a little Shocked there was no dialogue for nobuyuki's two sons who were there they were near the main camp like hey that's your uncle charging at u and yukimuras son I didn't even know he had a son who died at Osaka
generic NPC's tend to have no unique dialogues unless they are really really important to a battle/plot, like Zhu Ran in everything post DW8XL, or Mitsunari and his "brothers" pre-SW2~3

speaking of sons of other charactersi don't remember Guan Xing having any relevant lines pre-DW8 either :uh:
Edited by wodash, Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:30 pm.
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eNeMeE
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Guan Xing was a unique generic, he was the only one to have an appearance quote in DW7 when he would arrive, he would sometimes say the quote when you approached him but in story the flow of battle would sometimes not make him say that. Every time he made an appearance he would state "I am the son of the god of war". I think there is an arena stage in DW7 at the top left of the map in that map mode, if you play it, he triggers the quote.

I would like to think unique lines on a generic are sometimes a hint to a character, but it is hard to say. Fa Zheng was another generic in Warriors Orochi that was used in 1 battle as much as a regular character, he was the lead battle adviser in 1 battle.

Sometimes they are hints into the character, however sometimes it is just the average "Ha you fell for it" but with a different sentence. I kind of liked Tang Zi for his quote in DW8, "Show them the power of Wu".
Edited by eNeMeE, Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:06 pm.
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hozonov
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I must admit I get a little lost on DW characters. But in SW4 most of the NPC with lines were those UNPC. Generics are very generic and unimportant. There should be something though, at least the playable character noticing them, or whatever.

Today I was actually wondering if this will even come west. The past couple of years we've been lucky with releases in this part of the world, but this game is made because of the Sanada-maru Taiga drama. What do you think, guys? Can we ask Koei to consider it? Are they already doing it?
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AntonKutovoi
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I think this game is big enough to be translated. Also, Sengoku Risshiden was heavily promited as a tie-in with drama as well and it's coming here, so...
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The Outsider
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I'd be surprised if this didn't get translated and released in NA and EU, it's not like 'Eiketsuden' which is a different thing entirely and didn't even get the reception in Japan Koei was probably aiming for. If 'SW4-II' can come over here then 'Sanada-Maru' surely can.
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Humble Novice
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Eiketsuden should have been a biography of Zhao Yun rather than an original story. Let's hope Sanadamaru delivers a story that surpasses the pathos of SW4's true ending. While the fishing mechanic is interesting, it just seems weird to hand them out as gifts rather than prepare them into dishes. I think a cooking system would make for a nice mini-game. Also, now that Chacha is being added to the series proper, there's now a possibility we might get Go and Hatsu in future titles.
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wodash
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Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:58 am
Also, now that Chacha is being added to the series proper, there's now a possibility we might get Go and Hatsu in future titles.
might've as well change the title into Concubine Musou :wacko:
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Ryō Genken
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wodash
Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:34 am
Humble Novice
Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:58 am
Also, now that Chacha is being added to the series proper, there's now a possibility we might get Go and Hatsu in future titles.
might've as well change the title into Concubine Musou :wacko:
Chacha's the only concubine out of the 3, iirc. Cause 2 of them are waifu'd.
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