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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,835 Views)
bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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Last_Stallion
Wed Oct 5, 2016 9:00 am
SRS
Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:24 am
Why are people up in arms about "generic CAWs"?

You know who else started as characters with naginata/sword/etc?

Hideyoshi, Yoshimoto, Katsuie, Kojiro, Aya, Masanori
Yes, but those characters were unplayable when they used generic weapons. As soon as they became proper playable characters they were given unique movesets.
Katsuyori, on the other hand, appears to be a playable character with a generic weapon.
Has there been anything about these guys being playable though? They could just be unique non-playable characters, which would make sense considering how they were revealed.
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Fūma
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We'll probably find out that tomorrow when they'll update the official site. If the 3 characters don't have any UNPC label in their page or something, then it's safe to say they're playable.
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Ryō Genken
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wodash
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:23 pm
Ryō Genken
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:20 pm
It's typical for a game to cherry-picking certain historical characters designs. Remember Kiyomasa, know what he did to Christians?
they removed cruelty against anything sensitive in pretty much all games nowadays, unless said character is named Nobunaga, and even then they had toned him down a lot lately in terms of being cruel in games too
Hence i said cherrypicks. Otani is a leper..ofc he would look disfigured right? NOPE. Bishie boy!
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Maya
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Katsuyori is mostly depicted as aristocratic and also remembered due to his beautiful and tragic mother Suwa Goryonin who died young. He should look more like her since he is tied to Suwa since Shingen was responsible for the death of Yorishige, Katsuyori's grandfather on his mother's side.
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hozonov
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Fuuma
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:18 pm
hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:16 pm
Nobuyuki can't have a beard if the protagonist of the story has a beard. Common sense.
I'm sorry but what kind of logic is that? :blink:

Old Nobuyuki just doesn't look much, if any, older than his younger counterpart. They should've at least give him a stubble or something. He even has practically the same clothes too. Lame.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have a beard. I'm saying it was unlikely Koei would give him a beard.
He can't be too similar to the protagonist since he ends up being the antagonist. Also it's kinda hard to make him look older when he had gray/white hair since... birth?
I agree at least they could have done something else with clothes though.
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Fūma
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hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:35 pm
Fuuma
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:18 pm
hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:16 pm
Nobuyuki can't have a beard if the protagonist of the story has a beard. Common sense.
I'm sorry but what kind of logic is that? :blink:

Old Nobuyuki just doesn't look much, if any, older than his younger counterpart. They should've at least give him a stubble or something. He even has practically the same clothes too. Lame.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have a beard. I'm saying it was unlikely Koei would give him a beard.
He can't be too similar to the protagonist since he ends up being the antagonist. Also it's kinda hard to make him look older when he had gray/white hair since... birth?
I agree at least they could have done something else with clothes though.
True what you said about his hair color... but it would've been fun to see him with a white stubble/beard :lol:

Or even mustache. Though, maybe that would've looked weird.

I do hope that if we see a younger Ieyasu, he will on the contrast have a clean face with no facial hair.
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Makörë
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NoriyukiWorks
Wed Oct 5, 2016 4:42 pm
Scans!

Spoiler: click to toggle
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! That guy in blue is Hidetada? They changed Hidetada from that young version of his father with stupid face and same fatness to a regular pretty boy? You're kidding me! Also, does anything on this scan say which weapon will Muramatsu use?

EDIT: Also, they are aging Hidetada as well, I'm really having high hopes for aging now, as it seems they are doing that even to minor characters.
Edited by Makörë, Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:39 pm.
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Mibu Kyoshiro
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wodash
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:23 pm
Ryō Genken
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:20 pm
It's typical for a game to cherry-picking certain historical characters designs. Remember Kiyomasa, know what he did to Christians?
they removed cruelty against anything sensitive in pretty much all games nowadays, unless said character is named Nobunaga, and even then they had toned him down a lot lately in terms of being cruel in games too


I miss good old Demon Nooby. :/

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Call Me Hunky
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I feel like I'm the only one who loves all the new designs...
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wodash
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Ryō Genken
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:25 pm
Hence i said cherrypicks. Otani is a leper..ofc he would look disfigured right? NOPE. Bishie boy!
SB Otani is best Otani, it's all over if he managed to kiss you in battle :doge:
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Fūma
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They toned down Nobunaga from SW2 onwards because he wasn't the "main villain" in the story anymore when the story went past Honnouji and focus was set on Sekigahara. I feel his SW1 incarnation wouldn't have worked as well in the subsequent games anyway.

I'm curious to see if we get to see a young Nobunaga here. But actually, he probably won't appear in the story elsewhere expect during the 1575-1582 time bracket, so I guess chances of that happening are slim.
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wodash
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hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:35 pm
I'm not saying he shouldn't have a beard. I'm saying it was unlikely Koei would give him a beard.
He can't be too similar to the protagonist since he ends up being the antagonist. Also it's kinda hard to make him look older when he had gray/white hair since... birth?
I agree at least they could have done something else with clothes though.
he's already too similar by default since the mid/default version of them both is literally the same guy, but with different costume, weapon and hair color, they have similar face and hairdo

as for bear, i protest to the fact that old masayuki doesn't have half white half black mustache :nope:
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Mibu Kyoshiro
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wodash
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:42 pm
Ryō Genken
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:25 pm
Hence i said cherrypicks. Otani is a leper..ofc he would look disfigured right? NOPE. Bishie boy!
SB Otani is best Otani, it's all over if he managed to kiss you in battle :doge:
Nah, Gyobo doesn't do such g-shieettt, he just relentlessly pummels the opponents with his balls until their 4ss is ground beef...wait... :doge:
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hozonov
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Anyway, why is it beard/facial hair = old man? I mean, it's not like it gets harder to shave if you are 50 or something. You can even have a beard being only 20 yo. I blame Motonari for this nonsense.
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wodash
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hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:59 pm
Anyway, why is it beard/facial hair = old man? I mean, it's not like it gets harder to shave if you are 50 or something. You can even have a beard being only 20 yo. I blame Motonari for this nonsense.
nah, Yikumura grew beard and stache duing Osaka is because he didn't have time to shave and do his haircut anymore since he's so busy defending the walls
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hozonov
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wodash
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:05 pm
hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:59 pm
Anyway, why is it beard/facial hair = old man? I mean, it's not like it gets harder to shave if you are 50 or something. You can even have a beard being only 20 yo. I blame Motonari for this nonsense.
nah, Yikumura grew beard and stache duing Osaka is because he didn't have time to shave and do his haircut anymore since he's so busy defending the walls
Then that explains completely why Nobuyuki doesn't have a beard. He had it easier being part of side who won Sekigahara. Oh the luxury of being in the winner side.
I rest my case about The beards.
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AntonKutovoi
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Not to mention that while Nobuyuki doesn't have a beard, he looks old. Like, really old. Older than Masayuki, Motonari and Yukimura.
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hozonov
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AntonKutovoi
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:17 pm
Not to mention that while Nobuyuki doesn't have a beard, he looks old. Like, really old. Older than Masayuki, Motonari and Yukimura.
He looks old when he is 12 years old.
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Zai Tong
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Any good close ups on the characters can't see them that well
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AntonKutovoi
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hozonov
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:22 pm
AntonKutovoi
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:17 pm
Not to mention that while Nobuyuki doesn't have a beard, he looks old. Like, really old. Older than Masayuki, Motonari and Yukimura.
He looks old when he is 12 years old.
Lol, yeah, but it's not just about hair color. Look at the screenshot with old Nobuyuki. He supposed to be 49/50 years old at Osaka. He looks like he's 65-70.
Edited by AntonKutovoi, Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:33 pm.
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eNeMeE
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I like the new characters, I think they look okay. It makes me wonder how Katsuyori will be one as a character. If I recall he had the option to retreat the Sanada but choice not to for some reason, so I wonder how Koei will decide to portray that in the story.

Hidetada seems like he got hold of the Koei youth formula. It seems like the fatty persona is gone which is arguably good. I think Hideyori may gain a new model too.

New lady I am very unsure off, not sure who she is exactly but I wonder what weapon they will give her. It seems like the Sanada gained a fair few people (Sir points the obvious). With 4 family members and 2 ninjas it seems like it has enough, Kirigakure Saizō however seems like another person.

Although Osaka has plenty of cool defenders too like Matabei Goto, Kimura Shigenari, Chōsokabe Morichika and that Christian Samurai that served Ukita but his name escapes me. It seems as if this game could really add a lot of nice looking characters for the audience, but it seems like it has quite a fair bit already, so who knows if they need to add the above people.

Also never worry too much about the weapon, if we see these characters in the future they may change weapon. It's been a practise of Koei for years.
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bluefiend
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Fuuma
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:43 pm
They toned down Nobunaga from SW2 onwards because he wasn't the "main villain" in the story anymore when the story went past Honnouji and focus was set on Sekigahara. I feel his SW1 incarnation wouldn't have worked as well in the subsequent games anyway.

I'm curious to see if we get to see a young Nobunaga here. But actually, he probably won't appear in the story elsewhere expect during the 1575-1582 time bracket, so I guess chances of that happening are slim.
bad guy nobunaga would have worked out even better with the games finally moving past 1582. As it'd be able to definitively show us that a cruel guy like Nobunaga really wouldn't have been capable of uniting the land, especially when contrasted to Hideyoshi who was much nicer. It'd also make for a more climactic siege of Honnoji, you've got the bad guy right there about to achieve his goals, he biggest obstacle the Takeda have been defeated but then at the most crucial moment his own cruelty catches up with him and he's crushed by Mitsuhide!

Yet at the same time it could also show that being too nice like Hideyoshi doesn't work either as he let too many people have too much power thusly resulting in Ieyasu's take over, then we can have Ieyasu come in with a balance of both, of which Osaka castle would be proof of him exhibiting both(starting the siege after Chacha decided Hideyori wouldn't be a hostage).

As for the new characters, I'm not really bothered by them just getting the caw weapons as long as they stay exclusive to those characters.
Edited by bluefiend, Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:41 pm.
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AntonKutovoi
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And once again I fail to see why people want Nobunaga to be represented as a cruel villian. Why? It's not at he was more cruel than other lords. Because he was powerful? And what of it? Because the game needs black and white characters? Screw this mindset. Because it will give motivation to the characters to oppose him? Give them an actual motivation - they seek to built a different world rather han Nobunaga. SW3 had the best Nobunaga - a charismatic person, who wants to move the land forward, but at the same time ready to bury everyone, who stands in his path, not some moronic demon, like in Basara or Onimusha or crazy psycho, who doesn't give a damn about anything like in SW4.
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Fūma
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bluefiend
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:40 pm
Fuuma
Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:43 pm
They toned down Nobunaga from SW2 onwards because he wasn't the "main villain" in the story anymore when the story went past Honnouji and focus was set on Sekigahara. I feel his SW1 incarnation wouldn't have worked as well in the subsequent games anyway.

I'm curious to see if we get to see a young Nobunaga here. But actually, he probably won't appear in the story elsewhere expect during the 1575-1582 time bracket, so I guess chances of that happening are slim.
bad guy nobunaga would have worked out even better with the games finally moving past 1582. As it'd be able to definitively show us that a cruel guy like Nobunaga really wouldn't have been capable of uniting the land, especially when contrasted to Hideyoshi who was much nicer. It'd also make for a more climactic siege of Honnoji, you've got the bad guy right there about to achieve his goals, he biggest obstacle the Takeda have been defeated but then at the most crucial moment his own cruelty catches up with him and he's crushed by Mitsuhide!

Yet at the same time it could also show that being too nice like Hideyoshi doesn't work either as he let too many people have too much power thusly resulting in Ieyasu's take over, then we can have Ieyasu come in with a balance of both, of which Osaka castle would be proof of him exhibiting both(starting the siege after Chacha decided Hideyori wouldn't be a hostage).

As for the new characters, I'm not really bothered by them just getting the caw weapons as long as they stay exclusive to those characters.
That's actually a good point. You have some good arguments there.

Only thing I have to disagree with you is about the "bad guy about to achieve his goals before being betrayed" thing, though. I feel it works better if it's not clearly established that Nobunaga is the bad guy and Mitsuhide is the hero through the whole story. I prefer that the lines between good & evil is blurred at that point and the player gets the feeling that Mitsuhide develops his own selfish ambition and goes to ruin the end of chaos which Nobunaga is about to achieve after so many battles.

So basically I just find it more interesting if they portray the story in a light where Mitsuhide goes from a hero to something more like an anti-hero, while Nobunaga is mostly the bad guy, but still has his massive amount of supporters because he's the only one capable of uniting the land even if his methods are rather questionable.

EDIT @AntonKutovoi, yes this is exactly I'm thinking too about Nobunaga, you worded it perfectly.
Edited by Fūma, Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:04 pm.
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Mibu Kyoshiro
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AntonKutovoi
Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:54 pm
And once again I fail to see why people want Nobunaga to be represented as a cruel villian. Why? It's not at he was more cruel than other lords. Because he was powerful? And what of it? Because the game needs black and white characters? Screw this mindset. Because it will give motivation to the characters to oppose him? Give them an actual motivation - they seek to built a different world rather han Nobunaga. SW3 had the best Nobunaga - a charismatic person, who wants to move the land forward, but at the same time ready to bury everyone, who stands in his path, not some moronic demon, like in Basara or Onimusha or crazy psycho, who doesn't give a damn about anything like in SW4.


But you just described just about any bishie character in Musou, 2 many well-liked and charismatic characters with vanilla personalities. Come on, have some cruel people, have some sadists, unrelenting ********, pure evil, undoubtedly villainous, pure smugness, bone-crushing, peon destroying demons in human skin. That's what Nooby is represented like in fiction and sets him apart because everyone else is 2 damn heroic for their own good. Hell, Yukimura's supposed to be the most heroic of all, even going as far as getting Takeshi Kusao to voice the character and his heroic charisma has been lost in a sea of pure vanila blandness because the fujoshi can't love older buff men that like being pure evil. :rolleyes:
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