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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,825 Views)
Zai Tong
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StormBlessed
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Wow hates Naotora but loves kunoichi .......... Wow
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Makörë
Makörë
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Chris23505
Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:21 am
Makörë
Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:44 am
Naotora is the most garbage representation of character that Koei could have ever made. Even Bao Sanniang is not as patethic or annoying. And no, Toyohisa is not shown as strong, he is only shown as hot headed and careless and completely unable to fight against anyone, since he gets beaten by pretty much any enemy.
Dude,he has a six pack and can run and swing that weapon everywhere like a madman. Also, he was a challenge to Naomasa, he wounded severely in his ending and Naomasa was almost the one that died.
He was a challenge to Naomasa? No. He was not, he got beaten, just because the fight scene looked cool, that doesn't mean he was a challenge, Ne Zha was not a challenge to Orochi when he got beaten hard in WO3U just because that scene was cool.

Also, I'm fully aware of what he has to offer visually, so don't bother mentioning the six pack:
Posted Image
Zai Tong
Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:59 am
Wow hates Naotora but loves kunoichi .......... Wow
I don't love Kunoichi, but she is a much more bearable character and is certaily not even close to annoying, patethic and idiotic as Naotora is.
Edited by Makörë, Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:05 am.
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bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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Uesugi Kenshin
Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:31 am
Eh, what? Toyohisa is pretty strong, man. The Shimazu story gave me that impression anyway- just, he wasn't able to hone it all that properly, due to his overeager nature.

... though that you're happy he shot Naotora sort of speaks to me... in a negative manner. :uh: Naotora is a wonderful character, reminds me a lot of myself, I'm not sure how her being shot is a good thing in any way shape or form.
It's a good thing because of how it happened. Women getting hurt in Japanese media(and by Japanese media I mean anime and manga :P ) without it being a part of them becoming a McGuffin for the hero to chase after or to be used as a motivational tool for the hero or as a way to cement a villains evil status is pretty rare.

Basically think Attack on Titan, in that manga women get beaten and bruised just about as much as the men. But in most other manga, the only time the women is harmed is to be used as a tool to motivate the male, in addition the females characters themselves are rarely capable of being able to hold their own in a fight. Like One piece. none of the women in one piece are heavy contenders in a fight, they're only hurt to elicit emotional reactions from the readers and characters when they get hurt.
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AntonKutovoi
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Legend
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I REALLY hope that Naotora-den will be announced next yer, just so I could enjoy some people's reaction.
bluefiend
Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:16 am
Like One piece. none of the women in one piece are heavy contenders in a fight, they're only hurt to elicit emotional reactions from the readers and characters when they get hurt.
This off-topic, but... Boa Hancock and Kalifa (from the top of my head) are saying "Hi".
Edited by AntonKutovoi, Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:20 am.
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bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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I see your Naotora-den, and raise you a Saika-den.

A Saika game with multiple families of the seven-Saika-family's would be fantastic, especially if it primarily focused on Magoichi and the Tsuchibashi. We could get involved in the Kyoto wars that were going on before Nobunaga showed up. And as an extra mode we could have a sort of empires lite mode, where we rent out Saika troops and play battles, but rather than trying to conquer the land we instead do this in a way that keeps any one side from ever getting too strong, that way the wars never end and the gold keeps rolling into saika (support the Oda, for two battles, then support the Azai for two battles; support the Oda for one, then Azai for two more etc.)
@Anton_Kuvovi: I'll give you Boa Hancock, she seems like a pretty good fighter. But I can't say that applies to Kalifa. In Kalifa's first appearance as a fighter she's clowned by Sanji. The message that sent to the reader was pretty clear and that is too say that Kalifa isn't a real threat. No, other member of CP9 was clowned like that before they're serious fight except for her.
Edited by bluefiend, Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:28 am.
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Makörë
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It would be cool if they made Saika-den with multiple Magoichis.
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SRS
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Uesugi Kenshin
Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:31 am
... though that you're happy he shot Naotora sort of speaks to me... in a negative manner. :uh: Naotora is a wonderful character, reminds me a lot of myself, I'm not sure how her being shot is a good thing in any way shape or form.
I actually rather liked how they killed off Naotora so unceremoniously like that, for literary reasons. It gives weight to Toyohisa's last stand and has a realistic edge to it, where Naotora doesn't even get to have a heroically cliche last few words before death(funny enough, Toyohisa gets to do this not a minute or so later.) It has a bit of a style of historical military shows/movies like Band of Brothers and The Pacific. I'd actually really like to see more of this sort of style, not necessarily in killing off characters(a couple is okay, but if it happens to everyone then it just gets old and ironically cliche,) but how battle scenes progress.

Naotora's one of my favorites of the newer characters, just to clarify on that.

On that note, how do you guys think they may handle character deaths in Sanadamaru? The most pertinent ones being Shingen, Katsuyori, Masayuki and Chacha. We all know Yukimura will likely go down in the usual heroic charge in the finale, but do you think we might actually cover characters like Tadakatsu or Kunoichi?
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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SRS
Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:01 am
On that note, how do you guys think they may handle character deaths in Sanadamaru? The most pertinent ones being Shingen, Katsuyori, Masayuki and Chacha. We all know Yukimura will likely go down in the usual heroic charge in the finale, but do you think we might actually cover characters like Tadakatsu or Kunoichi?
Shingen might died offscreen, Katsuyori might died after Sanadas escape as the brothers watches him captured, Masayuki might be in his deathbed.

Chacha..i can see her historically suicide..but it never really happens in game. For some reason i can see her actually escapes based on the rumor.
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AntonKutovoi
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Legend
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Chacha probably will go into the flames of Osaka castle (kinda like Nobunaga in Honnoji)
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RPGNoZero
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Come to think of it, was Naotora getting shot in the face the first time we ever see female getting killed in DW/SW? Heck, i'm pretty sure that and Oichi in II are only death scene i can remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqH9imD91b0
Even that already has her dead when showed onscreen.

Wonder how would they do Chacha's.
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Raiko Z
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Makörë
Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:48 am
Yeah, feminists would rage at Ginchiyo's situation. Added first as a strong independant woman, rival to Yoshihiro, then having her position taken by her husband and forced to follow him around as a comic relief. What a stupid downgrade.
I'm all cool if Muneshige takes over the 'tough' position. But that Ginchiyo now is really really just a tag-along clown. That's the annoying part. She's not even a good comic relief.

Or maybe the current Ginchiyo is good from anime-watcher's glasses. I don't know.
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wodash
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undefeated in all directions
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RPGNoZero
Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:38 am
Come to think of it, was Naotora getting shot in the face the first time we ever see female getting killed in DW/SW? Heck, i'm pretty sure that and Oichi in II are only death scene i can remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqH9imD91b0
Even that already has her dead when showed onscreen.

Wonder how would they do Chacha's.
pretty much, SSX took a speeding arrow to her tiny body in DW8 and stands up immediately like it was no big deal
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bluefiend
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I hope Katsuyori gets an epic death. Which he should considering he goes down fighting the Oda, Tokugawa, Hojo, as well as former Takeda and Imagawa vassals, that's every clan he ever interacts with excluding the Uesugi.
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SwordofHeaven
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Commander
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Maybe ChaCha will take an arrow to the back and die or after the battle, you find her on the ground, she's still conscious to talk to you, and then dies.

Or they can just do that the original way. Put her hand on her chest, fall on her knees, say her last words, hit the ground, and dies :sly:
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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RPGNoZero
Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:38 am
Come to think of it, was Naotora getting shot in the face the first time we ever see female getting killed in DW/SW? Heck, i'm pretty sure that and Oichi in II are only death scene i can remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqH9imD91b0
Even that already has her dead when showed onscreen.

Wonder how would they do Chacha's.
Wasn't there some bullshit in the game indicating she survived that though? I'm sure there was.
Edited by The Outsider, Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:06 pm.
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AntonKutovoi
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Legend
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Disciple of Shadow
Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:06 pm
RPGNoZero
Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:38 am
Come to think of it, was Naotora getting shot in the face the first time we ever see female getting killed in DW/SW? Heck, i'm pretty sure that and Oichi in II are only death scene i can remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqH9imD91b0
Even that already has her dead when showed onscreen.

Wonder how would they do Chacha's.
Wasn't there some bullshit in the game indicating she survived that though? I'm sure there was.
In Toyotomi/Shimazu version of Sekigahara she dies. In Tokugawa version of Sekigahara she lives. But in any case, she does not appear at the Osaka.
Edited by AntonKutovoi, Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:21 pm.
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Raiko Z
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Dynasty Recon Chinalands
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wodash
Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:11 pm
pretty much, SSX took a speeding arrow to her tiny body in DW8 and stands up immediately like it was no big deal
Probably the tip was rubber sucker.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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>Naotora
>idiotic
??????????
.... it's obvious you don't actually know a thing about her character so I'll just disregard your opinions about her then. I'd go into detail about how you're wrong, but you know, it isn't worth the time or effort as you'd probably just brush it all off, and is off topic. So combine those two together, not touching that.

I can see why Naotora's death in the Western army route is interesting both from the perspective of being a female character actually being killed in a Musou game and from the perspective of her death being treated unceremoniously. However, I feel the two, in tandem, and together with the fact that she'd just undergone some great character development makes the whole thing reek something awful. She's finally accepted her role, she finally feels fully confident in herself.... and her first action is getting ****ing destroyed.

And it's not like she'll get a chance to be at Sekigahara again now that her son is a thing. So while I can see why some would like it, I feel it's major wasted potential. There aren't that many characters in these games that AREN'T confident in their abilities, and those that are tend to drone on about how worthless they are without acting like they think that way about themselves, making them look like they're fishing for attention. Naotora doesn't bring up her self-confidence issues that much, but certainly acts the role of not having much self worth. Now that her lifespan's guaranteed to be shortened to just the 1560-1582 stages, I'm worried.

I mean I guess they could speed her development a bit, but I'm not sure they'll have enough time for that, and just keep her as she starts out, which is just an utter waste of her character potential.

And I still don't see how one could interpret Ginchiyo as a "tag along clown" or "comic relief". If the Tachibana were comical at all, it's because both of them were- I really didn't take Muneshige any more seriously than Ginchiyo. Again, go through the game again, playing as her in all stages where she's available to play as. I'd suggest the same for those who think Toyohisa was weak; the Shimazu story definitely plays up his strength, and while he loses a few times, overall he smashes characters over and over again. Most are generic, yes, but so are all of the Mouri's enemies up until Nobunaga and the Mouri are treated as and respected as strategic geniuses.

Oh well. That's all off topic.

Anyway I don't think Chacha WILL be killed off. There are tales of her going into hiding with Kaihime, as well as rumors of Hideyori fleeing to Kyushu, so I fully expect Yukimura to be able to send the lot of them off while he does his last suicidal charge. And as noted before, Naotora dying was a pretty big deal. I'm not sure they'd repeat it with Chacha, at least, not in her debut where she's the main heroine. Maybe in SW5, though.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:50 pm.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

It's an Azai thing go down in a blaze of glory, I'd almost expect this out of Chacha...well, she'll be Yodo-dono by then, but you get what I mean
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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That's true too, she even has the Azai colors. I'd imagine she'd go down fighting or walk into the flames of Osaka in the style of her uncle, as suggested before, then.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

It would be kind of funny, or at least ironic if her main element was fire, and if she was pyromaniac considering what happened to her dad, mom, uncle (and sometimes auntie) and step-dad :lol:
Edited by Katatonia, Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:19 am.
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Rance
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Naotora should die in every battle, like Kenny from South Park.
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Makörë
Makörë
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Uesugi Kenshin
Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:49 pm
>Naotora
>idiotic
??????????
.... it's obvious you don't actually know a thing about her character
Nothing excuses this garbage representation. I don't care whether you like my opinion or not, it was not made for you, tough luck if you don't like it.
Rance
Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:23 am
Naotora should die in every battle, like Kenny from South Park.
I wish SW had blood and gore, so we could make some fatality-like moves on her.
Edited by Makörë, Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:45 am.
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SRS
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Master of the War Trident

Makörë
Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:44 am
Uesugi Kenshin
Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:49 pm
>Naotora
>idiotic
??????????
.... it's obvious you don't actually know a thing about her character
Nothing excuses this garbage representation. I don't care whether you like my opinion or not, it was not made for you, tough luck if you don't like it.
Rance
Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:23 am
Naotora should die in every battle, like Kenny from South Park.
I wish SW had blood and gore, so we could make some fatality-like moves on her.
Having an opinion is fine. Posting it in a manner like you have which will get someone else up in arms, is not. Use some tact.

But going by your previous comments on not just Naotora but other female characters, you really don't seem to care to know them properly and just brush them off with an all-encompassing "they suck" attitude.

And your second comment about fatalities is just childish. Grow up.
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Zai Tong
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StormBlessed
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bluefiend
Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:20 pm
I hope Katsuyori gets an epic death. Which he should considering he goes down fighting the Oda, Tokugawa, Hojo, as well as former Takeda and Imagawa vassals, that's every clan he ever interacts with excluding the Uesugi.
He commits seppuku after his failure at nagashino and goes back to Kai and kills himself
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