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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,823 Views)
Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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Ryō Genken
Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:43 am
Can't be helped Koei also treat her as nothing but digital sex doll.
:lol:

Yeah I guess you're right, those are fair points. But I think those just never bothered me much.
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WarHawk
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Where did bandana go?
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They both were good in dlc scenario about Ii legacy.
Naomasa has great personality and dynamics in the story, as for Naotota... well, I am not big fan of her look, but quite accustomed to her apologistic personality. Don't care much about minor details. And yeah if you want Naotora's den, call it Ii's den. Both should get solid amount of screen-time then. And maybe characters like Okatsu, Masakage and Ii Naotaka will be featured in one way or another. Hm Takeda is Tokugawa's opponent for quite some time, maybe character like Chiyome fits more to be Naotora's rival rather than Okatsu considering that Okatsu's ally status anyway.
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Manjiimortal
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Naotora at least has some personality and she gets some good moments with Ieyasu. Naomasa is just a brick with no personality that looks like a Power Rangers villain.

Plus, there's a pretty great story that can be told with Naotora if they add Iio Otatsu, NOT as Naotora's friend, but as her rival. Naomasa on the other hand is currently just a black hole of charisma.
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MuseWarrior
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Right General
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I like Naotora, I can understand how her feebleness can annoy people but I like how there's determination and talent underneath. Plus she tries to teach Naomasa right on SW4II. Plus as said already she has potential to be around pre-Okehazama if they ever expand on the Imagawa. However I do wish they add more emphasis to her influence and importance as a leader of a clan and make her a tiny bit more serious.
Also she has one of the best movesets, albeit a little OP, in the whole game.
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Last_Stallion
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Naotora is borderline bearable to me, but I would like her a lot more if she didn't have such a high pitched voice, said sorry a little less, had a more serious role (mainly her tumultuous experience as a clan leader), didn't have that stupid running animation and wasn't a hyper style character (her moveset and weapon are otherwise really cool).
Edited by Last_Stallion, Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:16 am.
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Makörë
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Last_Stallion
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:16 am
Naotora is borderline bearable to me, but I would like her a lot more if she didn't have such a high pitched voice, said sorry a little less, had a more serious role (mainly her tumultuous experience as a clan leader), didn't have that stupid running animation and wasn't a hype style character (her moveset and weapon are otherwise really cool).
Basically, if she wasn't completely stupid like she currently is.
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Mark Robin
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Legend
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bluefiend
Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:40 am
I don't think there's been any info about CAW yet. I don't think it'll happen myself, but you've got me thinking, both the CAW sword and spear are now playable via Hidetada and Katsuyori, yet Muramatsu isn't playable so what's going on with the Naginata? Are they saving if for another yet to be announced female character?
I don't think they are going to add another female character. If they did, it most likely be Otsu Ono since she is connected to both Cha Cha and Nobuyuki.

If they don't add another female... I got a feeling that they are going to add Hideyori with new design just like Hidetada.
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NaotoraYinping281
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☆石田三成☆
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That means if no another female character like Matsu yet to be announced, I would be very extremely shock for it and Koei probably add another male character like Hideyori.
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Maya
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They still have plenty to add.
Akihime, Hideyori, possibly Kimura Shigenari since he will appear on the show now.

Otsu Ono as a new ally for Nobuyuki would be good as well since his side is too empty.
Edited by Maya, Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:50 pm.
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Makörë
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I wouldn't be surprised if Otsu Ono got an unique model and became the representant of the dual sword CAW moveset, I think thats the one she used in SW4. But I just don't see Hideyori being added, unless he is a very young man (younger than Chacha, please, don't make the same **** you did with Naotora and Naomasa, Koei) and ends up like Muramatsu as cutscene only. For the naginata, honestly, pretty much any female related to the story could work, and I'm sure it will be a female if they add a representant to that moveset. The sword+gun thing, I have no idea, though.
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Maya
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The problem with Otsu is that while she appears in both Sanadamaru and Sanada Taiheiki (in which Nobuyuki was the main character) she is a side character in both.
I would like her though since Nobuyuki has little interactions beside Ina.

With Akihime I could see less problems since she is a bigger character in both shows and it would benefit to depict how the clan was torn in two. She also could appear in the final stages even since the Tokugawa arrested her however they let her go in the end.

Well the problem with Hideyori is that since Chacha isn't really aged up they would Look very weird next to each other.
Edited by Maya, Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:28 pm.
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Mark Robin
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Legend
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I don't think Otsu will be problem as long she communicate with Nene and Chacha. It doesn't have to be Nobuyuki like full 100% interaction.

As for Hideyori, I'm pretty sure once Koei add him, he will have something that involve with Sekigahara.
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bluefiend
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Manjiimortal
Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:44 am
Naotora at least has some personality and she gets some good moments with Ieyasu. Naomasa is just a brick with no personality that looks like a Power Rangers villain.

Plus, there's a pretty great story that can be told with Naotora if they add Iio Otatsu, NOT as Naotora's friend, but as her rival. Naomasa on the other hand is currently just a black hole of charisma.
I myself think Masakage could make a great rival to Naotora, that could also happen to affect Naomasa.

But who is Lio Otatsu and why does everyone keep bringing her up as a rival to Naotora?
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Mark Robin
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bluefiend
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:34 pm
But who is Lio Otatsu and why does everyone keep bringing her up as a rival to Naotora?
Otatsu Iio (Tazu, nickname by Naotora): She is known for head clan for Iio. I think she was mention that she was part of Imagawa Amy until the defeat at Okehazama.

She died during that time and after The War of Sekigahara, Naotora visit her grave. (Given that they are good friends.)

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Manjiimortal
Han's Unifier
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Sun Bai Hu
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:40 pm
bluefiend
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:34 pm
But who is Lio Otatsu and why does everyone keep bringing her up as a rival to Naotora?
Otatsu Iio (Tazu, nickname by Naotora): She is known for head clan for Iio. I think she was mention that she was part of Imagawa Amy until the defeat at Okehazama.

She died during that time and after The War of Sekigahara, Naotora visit her grave. (Given that they are good friends.)

No, no, no, no, NO!!!! NO!!! F****** NO!!!!

None of that Koei made-up power of friendship crap because it does nothing for Naotora's character! Give us the conniving, ruthless, balls of steel, Iio Otatsu from historical records whom happened to be one of the few female Daimyo of the era, that poisoned another Daimyo, that chose to defect from the Imagawa, whom told Ieyasu to f***-off when he insisted that "frail" women should surrender! She then went to push back Sakai Tadatsugu and Ishikawa Kazumasa, and once her gates fell she armed herself with a naginata and fought to the death against the Tokugawa, thus earning Ieyasu's respect!

That's the Iio Otatsu SW needs and deserves, not the wishy-washy Tazu nonsense!

(and I was purposely having an exaggerated reaction on the beginning of this post. I'm not one to play the drama queen card and I promise I won't pull this farce again. Also, I've already written provided a way in which she could be introduced, and what stages she'd appear in)
Edited by Manjiimortal, Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:20 pm.
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Kuroda Kanbei
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On this whole Naotora thing. I'm definitely not a fan of her.

The constantly apologizing moe archetype isn't inherently bad but Naotora has three things that ensures I find little redeeming about her portrayal.

Naotora's constant apologizing is brought down by her usually not having something worth apologizing for. Naotora only barely doesn't apologize for existing. That's not charming but annoying. She also does it far to much, to the extent that it swallows up her character. What does Naotora have besides her bewildering need to apologize? Her son....except she didn't always have him, did she? If her son is supposed to be the redemption of her character than she is without worth in the games where he is absent.

I like to think Colette Brunnel from Symphonia is a positive example of the archtype while Naotora is a negative one. Colette apologizes a lot but has a tendency to create issues were an apology is actually warranted. This can be her comical clumsiness, her dimness or
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She also has a character beyond those apologies, she even has that in her first game rather than two expansions later.

Naotora's second problem is that her voice really isn't helping her case. I get there is a certain kind of market for super meek girls with shrieky voices but its equally understandable that there's an even bigger crowd who finds that voice very very irksome.

The third problem is the biggest one. Naotora's portrayal is inherently cynical and as such I can not respect it.
There is a certain market that's very much into Moe and that market is mostly Japanese or people with similar tastes to the Japanese. Naotora is blatant pandering to that crowd.

That's not so bad. I see why Koei would want to satisfy those people. Its logical. But how is it logical that Noatora is the one to do that pandering? Why is the one female who was undeniable a leader in her own right reduced to a rather pathetic figure? Because that pathetic figure sells to a certain crowd. There's probably not even a particular reason Naotora would have to be the character given that treatment but exactly because its her I suspect that not much thought was put into her design. They just wanted a cute Moe character, searched for any random female lady that would do and called it a day.
Edited by Kuroda Kanbei, Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:35 pm.
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Scorpion26
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This game is looking interesting and gets you wondering about SW5 might just be me. Well I hope that all new characters and NPC added will be full features in SW5.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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...

sigh...
Off Topic, Naotora, and a very short discussion about anxiety disorder
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Makörë
Makörë
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Uesugi Kenshin
Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:14 am
...

sigh...
Off Topic, Naotora, and a very short discussion about anxiety disorder
Why, excuse me.
Naotora does not come close to having anxiety disorder
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Bro, I've been diagnosed, by three different doctors... I think I know what I'm talking about. :crazy: I guess I'm pathetic lol

Anyway let's drop it. We were asked to anyway, if indirectly. Naotora doesn't have much of anything to do with this game anyway.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:01 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Manjiimortal
Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:12 pm
Sun Bai Hu
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:40 pm
bluefiend
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:34 pm
But who is Lio Otatsu and why does everyone keep bringing her up as a rival to Naotora?
Otatsu Iio (Tazu, nickname by Naotora): She is known for head clan for Iio. I think she was mention that she was part of Imagawa Amy until the defeat at Okehazama.

She died during that time and after The War of Sekigahara, Naotora visit her grave. (Given that they are good friends.)

No, no, no, no, NO!!!! NO!!! F****** NO!!!!

None of that Koei made-up power of friendship crap because it does nothing for Naotora's character! Give us the conniving, ruthless, balls of steel, Iio Otatsu from historical records whom happened to be one of the few female Daimyo of the era, that poisoned another Daimyo, that chose to defect from the Imagawa, whom told Ieyasu to f***-off when he insisted that "frail" women should surrender! She then went to push back Sakai Tadatsugu and Ishikawa Kazumasa, and once her gates fell she armed herself with a naginata and fought to the death against the Tokugawa, thus earning Ieyasu's respect!

That's the Iio Otatsu SW needs and deserves, not the wishy-washy Tazu nonsense!

(and I was purposely having an exaggerated reaction on the beginning of this post. I'm not one to play the drama queen card and I promise I won't pull this farce again. Also, I've already written provided a way in which she could be introduced, and what stages she'd appear in)
IIRC, Otatsu betrays Naotora in SWC2. BETRAYS. So they might be good friend when they were tigether but later go on to battle each other.
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bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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As for Sanada's that could support Nobuyuki after he leaves, I just found out about Karasawa Genba; he sounds like a legend, similar to the Sanada ten braves, except there may be a bit of truth to his story.

He was a ninja whom was convinced by Yukitaka and Masayuki Sanada to defect from Iwabitsu castle(under the Uesugi at the time) and join them, which he did. He then served the Takeda up to Nagashino wherein he left. His Japanese Wikipedia page however says he stayed with the Sanada serving them up until Odawara and then continued to serve Nobyuki during the Sekigahara campaign.

I think it'd be awesome if this guy were added to this game and during the battle of Kawanakajima Masayuki could convince him to join the Sanada. This would be great as it'd give the Sanada characters something different to do during Kawanakajima as well as spice the battle up a bit from it's usual events. Maybe Masayuki could even put Sasuke or Kunoichi in charge of taking this guy out, giving them more to do during the battle. Aside from that he'd obviously add to the Sanada's numbers and make the Sanada's split feel more dramatic.

Plus, it'd add to the theme of the Sanada pulling all they're best non-family people from other clans: Sasuke trained under Hanzo/Tokugawa, Kunoichi trained under Chiyome/Takeda, and Genba Karasawa could have trained under Kato Danzo/Uesugi. It'd also give Kato Danzo someone else to interact with should he ever be added.

It would also help give the Sanada a stronger connection to the Uesugi for all the drama and battles that come about after the Takeda are destroyed.

@Manjiiimortal: Wow, your version lio Otatsu really does sound awesome, I'd be all for her getting in the games. But only with one caveat: she ends up being a pure Imagawa character. Though I suppose some hypotheticals where she joins the Takeda wouldn't be too bad, similar to say Mitsuhide joining the Takeda in SW1, or Ranmaru joining Mitsuhide. But for the most part I'd love if she ended up being pure Imagawa seeing as we don't have any of those yet, and if Naotora was supposed to be one of those up until she joins the Tokugawa, it certainly didn't feel that way.

Although I still think something should be done with Masakage and Naotora to influence Naomasa. It'd seem strange if he just took after Masakage out of the blue if Naotora has no interaction with Masakage. I feel like It'd make her look like a bad/weak mom :P

@Kanbei: I feel the same, I'm ok with Naotora's character archetype, just not on Naotora herself. she's only one of like 4 female daimyo's after all.

@Mew: I too suffer from anxiety, but even I don't apologize for every little thing like Naotora does. And when I do I don't sound that meek/scared about it, it wouldn't kill Naotora to be a bit more confident in her apologies at the very least. That said, I still hate that it's Naotora of all people that ended up with this personality type, it should have gone to somebody's wife instead, Megohime for example, would have been a perfect candidate for this personality type.
Edited by bluefiend, Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:49 am.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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im all for the idea of Nobuyuki having more friends

but also, it might take away from the drama of Nobuyuki leaving literally everything and everyone he loves behind in an effort to do the right thing and protect his family and his family's legacy.

But that whole thing might change now that Masayuki is in the game, as the divide in the game was between whether or not they supported Ieyasu or Mitsunari and had nothing to do with Masayuki. So now that daddy is in the game, that whole dynamic might change a bit.


Anyway. More friends for the better Sanada. A+.
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Makörë
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Speaking of Danzö Katö, what about him? Sure, he wouldn't be much of a contribution to the Sanada after the conflicts with Takeda, but before that, he could work, couldn't him?
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bluefiend
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Mr. Kamikaze
Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:21 am
im all for the idea of Nobuyuki having more friends

but also, it might take away from the drama of Nobuyuki leaving literally everything and everyone he loves behind in an effort to do the right thing and protect his family and his family's legacy.

But that whole thing might change now that Masayuki is in the game, as the divide in the game was between whether or not they supported Ieyasu or Mitsunari and had nothing to do with Masayuki. So now that daddy is in the game, that whole dynamic might change a bit.


Anyway. More friends for the better Sanada. A+.
I felt more like SW4 was going for "the family is splitting up" rather than just Nobuyuki is leaving. Which is why I usually approach from the angle of trying to keep that family splitting theme. Plus if they really do go for the Nobuyuki leaving his family idea, then he's all but guaranteed to come off as an unlikeable jerk. I mean leaving your entire family behind only to come back and immediately try to kill them all? That's some real dirty stuff.

But if they go for the angle of Masayuki tells Nobuyuki to join the Tokugawa it'd be a bit more ok, though I'd still dislike him for not going against it. The other problem I have with it is well, wouldn't that make the split end up being Nobuyuki centric? I mean thus far Yukimura has always been the main guy, I can't imagine Koei taking one of the Sanada's most emotional events and centering it around Nobuyuki.

@Makore: Actually I think he could offer a bit after the conflict with the Takeda. I'm pretty sure the Uesugi sent the Sanada some reinforcements during the 1st siege of Ueda, Danzo Kato could fill that role(or fill it in addition to Kanetsugu). Plus the Sanada were actually under the Tokugawa during the beginning of the Sekigahara campaign and fought alongside the Tokugawa against the Uesugi before Mitsunari called upon Masayuki, so they could make that into a battle and Danzo Kato could fight the Sanda's there too.

Which of course, would be all the better if Genba Karasawa was there for Danzo to interact with as well, because otherwise he has no real connection the Sanada's himself.
Edited by bluefiend, Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:59 am.
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