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Open World? Yay Or Nay? Improve or Thrown?
Yay and Improve 28 (73.7%)
Yay and Thrown 1 (2.6%)
Nay and Improve 2 (5.3%)
Nay and Thrown 7 (18.4%)
Total Votes: 38
So DW9 Open world? Keep it or not?
Topic Started: Tue May 15, 2018 2:55 pm (895 Views)
Ryō Genken
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Topic. Use this format:

(Y/N): [Reason]
(Keep or Thrown): [Reason]
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Skode
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What does thrown mean in this regards?
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Ryō Genken
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Skode
Tue May 15, 2018 6:25 pm
What does thrown mean in this regards?
Thrown means to discard Open world.
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Mark Robin
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I placed Yes and improve.
Yes because we need something new since DW7 and 8, which it did turn out well. I understand that there are few wanted to go back to old school, which I can see people vote nay and thrown or nay+improvement.

What to improve:
- Reduce the open world size to the point that it won't be boring. Make it similar to Spirit of Sanada. Also, increase a daily mention and keep doing daily mention day by day, rather than making it one time.

- Stages can be divided into separate chapters/arcs. Too crowded of stages in one chapter.

- Maybe set it as separate mode. This one can be serve as "free mode", but I would call it as conquest mode. Have Kingdom mode be kingdom mode.
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Ryō Genken
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As for me:

Nay. I dont think Open World has always been a good concept and system for DW. It's weird but i never see it as a perfect fit.

I can't fully explain it myself, but the problem for me is the questionable..purposes for it. Like what did it add? Exploration? Subquest? I just cannot see what it can be a good thing.

Thrown: As much as i love improvement, mainly because i despise how they get rid of renbu when it can be improved. But how donwe improve open world map?

One thing about DW stages is that each numbered titles, their iteration of each siege differs in stage structure and storyline. Sure some says nah they just reuse assets and blabla, i admit that. But the stage structure...some of them always gonna be changed. But there's a reason why to provide a non same-y feeling of each stages because in the end they have fixed narrative and settings.

So to me this is the reason for me why open World never worked, because how do you improve Open World with the fixed nature of DW? This is why i prefer Open world in an RPG or something like Farcry or something that over a thousand years or so..because you can have new world you discover not jusf this one..not just one single area because the next game the story will be set in this era or like Paris. DW has always been in 3kingdoms era and in China. If you go outside of China of heck after/before Jin dynasty it isnt DW anymore why dont just makw World Musou then? Sure you can change city appearance but their geography position will always stays the same, the wonder of nature like the landscape will allways stays the same because that's how China looked like in that era and place.
But i'm willing to see improvement. So i would suggest Koei not to scrap it. Just shelve it until they can get a better idea, execution and concept.
Edited by Ryō Genken, Tue May 15, 2018 7:04 pm.
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Myst
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DW always had same-looking stages. Everything usually looked brown, except Nanzhong. In DW9 they put some effort into hills/forests/various environments. But then they mostly ignored those, and stuck battles in a box (or, the same square-shaped castle), every time. You pop into said box, kill commander, and pause-menu-warp to next battle. It is poor design.

DW9 has good bones, it just needs a lot more refinement.
Edited by Myst, Tue May 15, 2018 7:30 pm.
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Call Me Hunky
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I think there’s a lot of potential in the open world format. If they can improve upon this game then I’m all for keeping it. If not, go back to the old format
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LordTerrantos
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I really neutral on the matter. on one hand the open world format does open possibilities for the story, however there is the risk of them just doing a very repetitive story with over 94 characters which can be quite boring for many. then there's of course the open world looks plain and boring in alot of its landscape.


there is a few differences, like some forests, mountains, some snowy areas, and etc. but the normal system had far mroe unique maps which made it easier to distinguish.


but at the same time if they went back to the old formula i that might as well be wishing death upon the series. unless they can improve the old formula greatly.



the gameplay isnt bad but it definitely doesnt feel as fun as the old system (which thankfully WO4 will have). so i think if they keep this open world concept, they need to improve it and if not. they need to improve the old system.
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highnesstamamo1313
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I'm all for the Open World but I don't think it was utilized to its full potential in DW9. There are a range on interesting locations but you mainly fight in similar areas which can get repetitive. There is some gorgeous scenery, but because there is a lack of things to do in the world it can feel very empty. They could have given the cast different tasks per chapter so we could visit other locations.

I would suggest some refinement; Reduce it's massive size, create a wide range of diverse missions (some character specific) and allow us to interact with the world much more.
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eNeMeE
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The damage has been done, so there is no point in discarding it when it can be improved.

That said, I do like the open world but it also has some major flaws and some parts to praise.


Tribes/Bandits
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Firstly, I find it lazy of Koei for them to litter bandits and animal packs across the map like nothing. The tribes need a settlement to help them and to become a faction which the player can interact with. There are plenty of tribes, Xiongnu, Shanyue, Qiang, Xianbei, Wuhuan to name a few. DW9 also has a mention of some tribes Shu recruit as allies during Yi Ling and there are the Heinshan Bandits as well under Zhang Yan. So that is a good 7-8 to start with, not to mention the other 2 other tribes which are mentioned later in history. The Di and the Jie, I mean okay they were not exactly around in the early parts but they are an option. With these tribes around, just like the Nanman, they would have a small influence on the world.

Maybe make it so they have talisman's that they can offer to make them differ to the town stuff. They do attacks on villages now and again or they go out and raid bases etc. Maybe some of them would of took a chance to steal food out of a supply base or something.

You could gain a reputation with them, if you kill so many they start to fear you and if you approach their settlement they would not bother to attack you because it's pointless. Another option is perhaps you can pay them to leave. I guess they might do this sort of stuff in Empires though.

As for Wildlife, I have no knowledge of the Eco-system of China, however I would like to make archery a bit more useful and maybe make it so we can shoot fruit of tree or rare plants that grow on tree branches.


Battles
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Maybe I am just slightly annoyed at some battles but sometimes I see unused bases scatted around some maps, which is odd because if they used of of these bases some battles would not be a chore to do.

Some battles are quite nice and really cool. New He Fei Castle as Jin has missions and a battlefield so tight and knit closely it works. There are more battles like that but I would have to go back in game. Yellow Turban Rebellion was okay too.

However some battles suck so hard and are just not fun.

Guan Du, I don't get why we have them 4 missions at the back at Guan Du, and not some more battle focused missions. Seems odd really, I think they could of added a few more missions in the battle instead of sneaking off to do other things. I guess to some it is different but to me I would say that it was pointless.

Chi Bi, sadly I want to like this battle, but it feels empty and nothing like a naval battle. The missions are spread in a decent way and I praise that bit but it did not feel as much of an epic battle as I would of liked to off seen.

Ru Xu Kou, again I find it odd that Ru Xu Kou is a battle that has like 1-2 missions around it and some are at the land of Wu at Niu Zhu fort. I find the battle annoying because of the back and forth among the river stuff. I'm not sure if Niu Zhu was even a part of Ru Xu Kou. I guess I am salty but I think if there were more missions around Ru Xu Kou it would be better.

There are more battles I would prefer to have the missions closer to each other, it would be better to explain with pictures.

Environment
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I would like more to with friends, like sports, gambling, contests or other stuff like maybe a card game or the game of go. I reckon Empires will likely add features like this to make it differ. I find the whole home thing kind of boring since all it is at the moment is just 7 different dialogues of an officer. I would like the idea of competing or going to the pub with officers I have be-friended. I think like 3-4 friends being around you at a time would be cool. It would also make it seem like less grinding.

Still I think there should be stuff like ->

Mountain/Hill climbing with a friend.
Horse Racing with officers.
Gambling.
Go board game or maybe a cool card game.
Going to the pub.
Fishing with a friend. (If they improve it)
Archery with a friend.
Hunting with a friend.
Going to a temple.
Solving village/town requests with a friend. (More of an Empires thing)

I mean the idea of drunk horse riding your friend back home is just too much lols. I loved how the GTA series handled the drunk driving. It was fun, I guess Koei would be better of avoiding that...

Also I'm surprised we have no caves, although I am not sure if there are any.
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DarkRebellions
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reduce and improve The open world and Graphic for DW9 Expansions or XL. Make it similar to FFXV and Horizon Zero Dawn. I really hate Frame rate and Bug in DW9, Which looks more terrible.
Edited by DarkRebellions, Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm.
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Mark Robin
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Removing the open world to go back old school is complete suicide because not only you have to fix the weapon moveset, they also have to fix the weapons system, doing clones due to rush and can potential hurt the market once more.

I felt that switching from 6 to 7 was consider complete change, but have issue. I just don't want to see this happen from 9 to 10 (that's if they jump it to ten).
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daolunofshiji
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Quote:
 
Mountain/Hill climbing with a friend.
Horse Racing with officers.
Gambling.
Go board game or maybe a cool card game.
Going to the pub.
Fishing with a friend. (If they improve it)
Archery with a friend.
Hunting with a friend.
Going to a temple.
Solving village/town requests with a friend. (More of an Empires thing)

I mean the idea of drunk horse riding your friend back home is just too much lols. I loved how the GTA series handled the drunk driving. It was fun, I guess Koei would be better of avoiding that...


Agreed, these sort of side activities would make the game far more enjoyable outside of the combat and story elements. The joy of an open world, single player or MMORPG, also comes from the things you can do while interacting with the world.

If you include these activities, or some like these, with in-game characters it can also bring out a little more characterization which is always needed for these games.

Also, boat races. I want boat races.
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eNeMeE
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I'm surprised you commented daolunofshiji, I read your blog now and again, (I asked about your opinion on Wen Pin).

I feel as though sometimes you get hints into a character's past but with little to no evidence other then a mention. Lu Meng, Lu Su, Cao Ren and heck even Cao Cao and Yuan Shao all behaved a bit differently in their youth.

It would also be funny to have a few out of battle interactions that would make you smile now and again. Like this Lu Meng and Gan Ning bit here could be a recurring theme when they do stuff together ->

https://youtu.be/PL2oT7jVWqE?t=4m19s

Would like to see more activities to do with officers.

Only problem is the time it would take, Dynasty Warriors has quite a few playable officers. Hopefully Empires put's a bit of effort into bonding system and the ability to do activities with multiple officers so that it feels like you have a network.

I think open world can be a portal to better interactions, it just depends on Koei.
Edited by eNeMeE, Thu May 17, 2018 12:21 am.
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ThreeKingdomsWarrior
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eNeMeE
Wed May 16, 2018 4:11 pm
Also I'm surprised we have no caves, although I am not sure if there are any.
I think the only 2 cave areas in DW9 are in the stone sentinel maze (which overall looks so good and big for me), and in that main part of Guandu.
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eNeMeE
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Doh I forgot about those, I thought of Guan Du more as a small tunnel but yeah it is a cave.

I'm surprised that there are a lack of saves in some areas, I like the idea of some tribes like the Shanyue using them, or perhaps the idea of them being animal liars which are super strong animals with element powers but also have some good treasure.
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Skode
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eNeMeE
Thu May 17, 2018 12:49 pm
Doh I forgot about those, I thought of Guan Du more as a small tunnel but yeah it is a cave.

I'm surprised that there are a lack of saves in some areas, I like the idea of some tribes like the Shanyue using them, or perhaps the idea of them being animal liars which are super strong animals with element powers but also have some good treasure.
Those armour troops and Wu Tugu were specifically stated to live in deep caves in the books but alas I've not seen any got them either.
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WarHawk
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There is no turning back; I prefer to keep it but at the same time improve all the fields. Many mistakes were made through development process, but there is still hope bright f... oh forget about it) I do not have a firm point right now
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Ryō Genken
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WarHawk
Thu May 17, 2018 6:04 pm
There is no turning back; I prefer to keep it but at the same time improve all the fields. Many mistakes were made through development process, but there is still hope bright f... oh forget about it) I do not have a firm point right now
Yeah i just realize. Koei is...sometimes too listening. If they think open world is bad. They scrap it make old stage again...adding more unneccesary work.

So i would've chosen 3rd option now. Just improve Open world. It's bad now..yeah but just improve it. I know Koei is sometimes an idiot..it's bad but just improve it okay. Dont want another DW7 incisent wherr you go back to old system..potentially more workload sacrificing the DLC making everything clones AGAIN.
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Skode
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Yeah - keep what worked and improve what they didn't. Genuinely think DW9 is fantastic conceptually but the execution was messy... You could tell they didn't get the development time or budget to nail their first attempt at this on the flagship series but there's definitely a decent base to work upon.
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Ryō Genken
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Skode
Thu May 17, 2018 6:31 pm
Yeah - keep what worked and improve what they didn't. Genuinely think DW9 is fantastic conceptually but the execution was messy... You could tell they didn't get the development time or budget to nail their first attempt at this on the flagship series but there's definitely a decent base to work upon.
Yeah sorry about being negative with open world..i just realize how sometimes Koei takes thing like these to heart and scraps open world..then make old stages..which would mean Extra workload if that happens. It'll be DW7 all over again with DLC galore i dont want that again.
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Skode
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Ryō Genken
Thu May 17, 2018 6:35 pm
Skode
Thu May 17, 2018 6:31 pm
Yeah - keep what worked and improve what they didn't. Genuinely think DW9 is fantastic conceptually but the execution was messy... You could tell they didn't get the development time or budget to nail their first attempt at this on the flagship series but there's definitely a decent base to work upon.
Yeah sorry about being negative with open world..i just realize how sometimes Koei takes thing like these to heart and scraps open world..then make old stages..which would mean Extra workload if that happens. It'll be DW7 all over again with DLC galore i dont want that again.
Yeah, honestly don't think the series would survive another 180 degree turn and to be honest I wouldn't be interested in it either.
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Ahsoka Tano
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No way get rid ASAP. Just make much bigger maps for battles, with exploration like DA:I. Open stages so that they can make sure each one looks different and has different mechanics. Day and night can stay but instead change with the story, for example Chi Bi could have a few skirmishes before going onto the actual battle of chi bi, start it in the morning and by the time the main battle comes along it’s night time. Also adding “extra” missions that could allow for the more regular background characters to get some time in the story, and if each skirmish allowed for a choice out of 3 characters, you could write it around all 3 of them so they aren’t spending resources on individual characters, but still allowing for certain characters to be relevant in the game, without twisting the actual history of how things happened at each major battle.
Edited by Ahsoka Tano, Thu May 17, 2018 7:17 pm.
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Skode
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Ahsoka Tano
Thu May 17, 2018 7:15 pm
No way get rid ASAP. Just make much bigger maps for battles, with exploration like DA:I. Open stages so that they can make sure each one looks different and has different mechanics. Day and night can stay but instead change with the story, for example Chi Bi could have a few skirmishes before going onto the actual battle of chi bi, start it in the morning and by the time the main battle comes along it’s night time. Also adding “extra” missions that could allow for the more regular background characters to get some time in the story, and if each skirmish allowed for a choice out of 3 characters, you could write it around all 3 of them so they aren’t spending resources on individual characters, but still allowing for certain characters to be relevant in the game, without twisting the actual history of how things happened at each major battle.
They did that "pick 3-4" format in the likes of DW8... Majority of cast effectively got written out with some reduced to "what if" battles. Issue here was giving everyone access to every battle and every mission instead of relevent to them ones so individual stories effectively were in fact the full kingdom ones.

Going back to the only pick 3-4 format is going straight back to the bias for likes of Guan Yun at the expense of the likes of Guan Ping and to be honest I hated that.
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Scuttlest
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I think I'll go with 'drop open world, have enclosed battlefields like past entries, but make the battlefields bigger'.

As for character picks, take a cue from SW4 and allow you to play as pretty much everyone in your faction that was at the battle, without DW8's arbitrary 4 character limit.

Maybe we could also take a cue from how SW4 gave specific battlefield variants to certain characters. What I recall most clearly was how there was a special 'Shimazu version' of Sekigahara in SW4 that no other Western Army character could play. In DW there could be something similar.

Some examples that come to mind are... a special version of the Wei side of Fan Castle that is unique for if you select Yu Jin. Another special Wei side of Fan Castle if you play as Pang De, a special Shu side of Fan Castle (noticing a Fan-ny pattern with these examples?) if you play as Guan Ping, and etc.
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