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Player using NPC event thread
Topic Started: Sep 11 2011, 11:00 PM (619 Views)
Darkrob
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Admin
First off... I agree with everything said in the locked thread posted in the info area about using NPC's in events. Dead on...

Now to my point. As a former admin I can tell you this. When you start and continue a thread containing insults thrown at players and questions posed... you don't lock it outright. You either allow players the opportunity to defend their side in a professional manner or you post in a professional manner before you lock it.

Sorry Duke, but your post in that thread is very belittleing to players and should either be edited to be more professional or removed. Posting it in a locked area just adds more fuel to the fire by making you into some sort of god the other players cannot reply to.

It doesn'tt matter how "it pisses you off" or how you "will really really punch" the person... it's in bad form to post that in a locked thread and run off laughing knowing we can't reply.

This has happened many times with DM's throwing in the last word of a thread, using a less than professional post, and then locking it. It should not happen like that.

I'm not using this as an attack... only a reminder that we are all (mostly) adults here and should be dealt as such. using "tough talk" towards us, in locked threads, only lets us know we are below you and it doesn't sit well with most players.

Rant off.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Ceremorph
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
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Rob, we often forget that the Announcements forum is locked to players. Anyone who feels a need to respond to posts in there is more than welcome to do it here; however, that forum is locked down for a reason... it's about DM messages to the community, that we want people to be able to read without having to scroll down through "I agree totally!" "Here's my 47-point response to what you're saying" and "Nooo! I ragequit now!" posts.

We're not going to censor our playerbase for anything short of flame posts, innapropriately silly postings in a serious thread, or the profligate beating of a dead horse (i.e., 3.5 vs 4 arguments).
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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Darkrob
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I understand Cere, and that's half my point. Posts in that Forum should be professional, without insult and to the point. It shouldn't be used to vent at the players in an emotionally charged post.

I understand some DM's get very passionate about what they do and it carries into events and posts... but they should always make locked posts to the point and "Rant-Neutral" as possible... or at least wait an hour or two before they make them.

That's all I'm trying to say.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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DM_Duke
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Power of Epicness
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Theres only so much patience one can show before you finally loose your cool Rob.

Trust me, ive tried being nice so many times before and its clear that it wasnt heard the first time so sometimes, applying that extra enphasis makes it very clear to a player where a DM stands on the matter.

Professionalism goes hand in hand with pragmatism. Both work together as in order to be adept at something you also have to make sense of it.

There is no sense in players abusing their benefits to no-end.

I reffer to the infamous ANGEL SUMMONER scenerio. In which a player literally just lets their NPC's take care of EVERYTHING rather than being involved at all.

That, really does aggrovate me, it doesnt matter what a player thinks about that. It aggrovates many DM's and other players who "dont" have that privladge.

Ask yourself this Rob, if a newcommer comes on this server and the first thing he sees is "some guy using his random npcs to do everything" what impression does that leave if we let everyone have npcs?

Its not DND its warhammer. Its sending armies to do things the heroes clearly should be doing themselves.

So for that reason: cut the crap and stop doing it. Its annoying as hell and it wont win you ANY points in the long run.

Sure... you want me to be neutral: Some people do work hard to earn their benefits yes. Some people do try to actually get that respect and reputation.

But thats unforuntatley countered by the fact the scale is tipped in favour of them ABUSING that benefit to no end. There are a few that use it responsibly, but not enough. It is clear that players have no real ability to control themselves when it comes to these things so 'why' I ask should they be given a hand-me-out to every event?

No Rob, you can be polite but if people spit it in your face, they deserve to be reminded more firmly there the line is drawn. Ive been polite enough.

Its time to put a harder hammer on the matter and make it bluntly clear where X and Y are the extent of the chars abilities.
Because I just win - DM Duke.
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Darkrob
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I understand Duke. I agree with the intent of the thread. It makes a lot of sense... it's just the delivery was far too wide and broad. It would have been best to just leave Mr. O's post as it was and contact the players directly who are guilty of the crime in PM's. We're always being told... if you have a problem with someone... take it to PM's. That applies both ways. Mr' O made a good post that covered what needed to be said. The rest should have been dealt with privately.

There's no need to come out with the verbal shotguns and open fire on the general public. You're frustrated... I get that... I understand it... but it serves no one to use a locked post as a form of attack.

Like they say... never post angry. Let it rest and post later. you'll save yourself a whole lot of grief.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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DM_Duke
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[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I suppose theres pragmatism to those words, I appologise if it came across as entirley upfront. I just feel that sometimes, being nice, isnt enough. Specially if doing so is the very reason people take advantage of that generocity.
Because I just win - DM Duke.
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Darkrob
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I used to find the best way to deal with people who abused privilage... was to remove the privilage if they didn't learn from warnings. You can only tell a player so many times not to do something, being nice as it was... and then you remove the tool he abuses. If a player has access (for whatever reason) to IG NPC's and continually ignores the wishes of staff when using them... take them away. Have his character stripped of by having his NPC's reject and abandon him for a time.

Harsh? Maybe... but like in real life... you abuse the system... you pay for it.

It's gotta be easier than pounding your head against your desk in frustration ;)
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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MirielKanan
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There has been a time or two when I felt it made more RP sense for my characters to break away from the group rather than stay with them. I felt badly for doing it to Duke last night but I just felt it was better to have her use the ship as an excuse to keep herself out of danger. I threw in RP comment and such to show that I was still participating but I felt like I was distracting more the group than anything else.
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LiquidDreamer
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Dungeon Master
The problem is is that Duke is with me on his bs meter, hehe.

After awhile, you get flustered by folks that RP a total badass with a "group" at their beck and call that can *snaps his fingers* even deal with NPCs with ease.

That announcement was to once again, try and curb that. You guys don't know it, but got an ACTUAL thread with us discussing that very thing from awhile ago, and the same issue keeps rearing it's ugly head.

That's all we're saying.

I haven't had Phoenix threaten me with his arm of Anarchists. No, Phoenix threatened.. but him and his goon squad. And we can everyone can agree that homey rolls deep and that's the difference. You Robbie actually do it yourself, it's always Phoenix i meet, not his goons are anyone else. while others would rather send their accountant/ninja after our poor npcs :ph43r: .

And yes Sigil, we got'em. If you see an accountant/ninja tell them NO! Accountants can't be ninjas!
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Plaxy100
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I think a good and proper use of Npc in a war scenarios is exemplified well in the game Dynasty Warriors Yes that is your army and they do there best to follow you but they are Next to useless, they throw an attack once and while and provide a buffer from advancing troups, but overall You the hero should be the one cutting a swath to the enemy heroes and bosses.
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xeneize
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I agree... announcements should be completely objective and void of any subjectivity. The moment fingers start being pointed at, the moment problems arise, of course they are locked threads.

No problem simply make a side thread quoting what you want from the announcement ^_^
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Reptiller
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Mimir
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9 Virtues of NPC use by Reptiller(Hildmor):

1)Thou shalt never send NPC on an important task. If you have to, let the DM screw it up badly. They're mostly good for menial(but handy) tasks like getting more players involved in the things.

2)Thou shalt never ask for a ton of NPCs to add your in combat if such is going to happen. Too much clutter is bad for the server crash rate. You can always RP your army fighting together with you if you so desire(and allowed by the DM) while having yourself, your friends and your cohort.

3)Thee shalt never question the destiny of thy NPCs sent on a dangerous task. If they fail horribly and die the agonizing death, it makes perfect sense.

4)Thee shalt keep RPed level of thy warriors below 15.

5)Thee shalt not have thy warriors fight alone, -ever-. Unless thee intend to screw up for story reasons.

6)Thee shalt seek RP reason to -not- have thy warriors there before even asking the DM for them.

7)Thee shalt not be afraid to ask.

8)Thee shalt not be not afraid to ask twice.

9)Thee shalt seriously get thy ass out of dodge if you ask again. No means no, find an reason for thy warriors to have dearrhea or family issues.

Ofcourse, I didn't discover all these immediatly but experience helps, no?
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
It was not meant to be taken as insult as I do not insult anyone, all I want is that players play their own characters during events and let the DMs handle the NPCs and reveal what they want to playerbase rather than making presumptions that your characters allies should know everything. It is much more firm than my usual approach, but when you keep hearing time and time again about the same thing, I will take different approach to the subject until the message goes through.

I have not said any names in the announcement, and still will not. Considering the quantity of players that have such groups, if you think I'm pointing my fingers at you, or your group of NPCs, there is high odds that you're wrong, unless you find yourself doing what was mentioned in the post.

Now back to school for me and I won't be checking forums for next 10-13 hours due to it.

*edit; didn't have time to really read most of the responses since I had only about 10 minutes to write*
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MirielKanan
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Have fun with school stuff Mr O! :)
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Lucereflame
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hmm.. as much as i like having "people" Behind me.. if anything i would like to have Rp'd Gaining men and women.. or Even having other players as Such groups.. If i have an idea to make a Ship Crew of a spell jammer. i would like to ask people on the forums to fill my Crew roster. this makes it a whole lot more fun for everyone. and makes it so their is no Big army of npc's. .. and another thing.. This Being the City of Doors.. and portals are capable of opening up anywhere.. to just about anything. Your "men" could easily have fallen into the plane of Semi- Elemental Ranch Dressing
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