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Viability of Disarm
Topic Started: Sep 13 2011, 04:40 AM (402 Views)
Styxwash
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Heya, im wondering if it's currently possible to disarm most armed critters on the module?

I don't want to pick the feat and later realize that alot of critters arent set to disarmable even though they use a weapon.
Tuqrox, the ogrillion - Dumb brute
Edvard Morner, the pureblood - Barmy egotistical antagonizer
Enoch, the human - Dustman rebuker
Bai' Dago Vixxor, the gnome - Planar scavenger
Agkistrodon, the halfblood - Doomguard aspirant
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Ceremorph
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
Admin
Currently, the majority of enemies cannot be disarmed.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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MadPorthos
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Playtesting Gremlin
Tester
As Ceremorph says, with something to be added though from my experience.

I made a characer with good disarming skills and I can manage a skilled disarm in the Abyss. Now occasionally the opponents coming at you there apparently armed with a real cool looking sword or axe and shield.

I've been in a fight with them spamming disarms on them and had it seem to work... for no good reason, the cool sword, axe or bow they stop using and decide to punch me instead.

So it seemed to me it was being disarmed into thier inventory (not the ground) or into "nowhere".

In a long fight though, I could swear once I disarmed an Erinyes General with a greatsword and it disappeared. She beat on me for a round or two, then I swear, she drew the same sword again and started using it again, until I once again disarmed and she did seem to start punching again. She died without further weirdness.

So yeah, you can't usefully disarm an opponent creature, it apparently seems too much as an exploit or way to get a drop or weapon you wouldn't otherwise. You would have to ask a monk if you can get a weapon directly to your own inventory with thier unarmed disarm.
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cryptc
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Advisor
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Alot of the weapons monsters use aren't for drops, and disarm won't change that.
"One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook
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Agony_Aunt
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Get a Life
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Could be a nice way to get unique weapons if they could be retrieved.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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cryptc
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And break all balance we designed
"One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook
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Agony_Aunt
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Wasn't atually suggesting we enable it. :D
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
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You can disarm critters like erinyes who actually use weapons (even though you won't get the weapon 99% of the time)... for enemies that use natural/unarmed weaponry, no chance.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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LiquidDreamer
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Wha? Disarm is total ownage in PvP. It's also why i try to have 3 to 4 weapons in my hotkey with my melee guys. And for everything else.. they get cut down.
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MadPorthos
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Tester
Well Tomekk, I think you might have seen what I saw, in that it seems you're disarming them, but here about you can can see cryptc and ceremorph saying its disabled.

One suggestion is that sometimes we see stupid AI, not the actual effects of a disarm doing anything. That is to say, the Erinyes runs up to our character and is hacking with a sword or something and does no damage, so the AI stupidly falls into that mode where it figures that hand to hand will be the more effective attack without the weapon, perhaps because it cheats and metagames knowing you have a given resistance, DR or immunity to the used damage type on the weapon.

Regardless, I don't think it works to any tactical level.

Regarding the comment about disarming being enabled, yes of course it would destroy the "balance" of the special drops, in that you'd have used a tactic to get the special weapon or drop out of the hands of the monster who otherwise would have been more powerful with it in hand being used. If the "balance" of the loot tables is entirely based on what drops AFTER a creature dies, being able to get the special drops from a disarm, or kill would create a greater incidence of using this. But I'd point out, you STILL have to kill the creature.

Another thing, which is a pet gripe of mine... and no, this is not support of another mode of PVP...

Pickpocketing. It is not implemented in a PvE sense here. Yes, we've eliminated its pvp aspect, great. But there seem to be no quests or circumstances where it can be used PVE. If we did have PvE pickpocketing in quests, areas and with bosses, it could really tie into other things like normal disarm too.

Skilled disarmers could get occasional weapon items off a badguy which might not even be useful or "purples" but that are quest items. Skilled pickpocketers could sneak up on the same boss or target and pick pocket it off the victim, hence accomplishing the "weakening" of the foe the same way. Because the item was actually on the creature, rather than a random drop from a loot table at the end of a fight, there is something to the importance of the way it is obtained...

A fighter could never "disarm" a key, but a rogue with a good pickpocket could sleight of hand/pickpocket that same key away from the boss npc, or steal the boss's greatsword.

Consequent of this could be the decrease of frequency of purples and specials in the loot tables of random drops, to be implemented at a time when some of the models in game of non working items are being removed or modified.

Just ideas though.
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cryptc
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Too long, so just read first paragraph.

I didn't say it was disabled, just that items generally won't drop, and that many monsters it should have worked on it won't. YMMV.
"One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook
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Styxwash
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well my main reason for taking disarm was simply to have a tactical advantage over creatures with weapons. Wasn't really thinking of stealing weapons as spending a feat on imp. disarm is a waste.

But now that I hear most creatures with weapons aren't disarmable, I suppose I won't take the feat at all.
Tuqrox, the ogrillion - Dumb brute
Edvard Morner, the pureblood - Barmy egotistical antagonizer
Enoch, the human - Dustman rebuker
Bai' Dago Vixxor, the gnome - Planar scavenger
Agkistrodon, the halfblood - Doomguard aspirant
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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Styxwash,Sep 13 2011
02:26 PM
Well my main reason for taking disarm was simply to have a tactical advantage over creatures with weapons. Wasn't really thinking of stealing weapons as spending a feat on imp. disarm is a waste.

But now that I hear most creatures with weapons aren't disarmable, I suppose I won't take the feat at all.

THEY ARE :banghead: It's just that creatures like the Cornugons or Hezrou generally fight with their bare hands, which you can't disarm, not to mention that they have a size and STR advantage either way.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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Styxwash
Member Avatar
Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well it goes without saying that you can't disarm a claw, a set of fangs and so forth <_<

The DM's are saying that many monsters disarm should have worked on (creatures with weapons, as i've stated many times) it wont work on.

So is this incorrect or what is your point, Tomekk?
Tuqrox, the ogrillion - Dumb brute
Edvard Morner, the pureblood - Barmy egotistical antagonizer
Enoch, the human - Dustman rebuker
Bai' Dago Vixxor, the gnome - Planar scavenger
Agkistrodon, the halfblood - Doomguard aspirant
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Ceremorph
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
Admin
As an example, when I built Clangor, the hobgoblin elites were given special "warblade" weapons that were equivalent in power to the top crafted weapons. As such, the weapons were made undroppable to prevent epic high-strength characters with disarm from taking a trip there and gaining hundreds of the things. The same holds true with things llike the bow used by the Erinyes Generals in the Abyss, and the Bulezau from the Endless Maze's ranseurs; we're left with the choice of either arming all monsters with normal weapons and allowing disarm, or giving them things to make them dangerous foes and preventing it. We chose the latter.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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