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| This is getting a Little Crazy.; we need to take a look at somethings. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 28 2011, 08:28 PM (1,141 Views) | |
| LiquidDreamer | Sep 29 2011, 03:20 AM Post #16 |
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Neli is the only one that actually poked me to get hands on the crafting items. I am still waiting for a couple more, like i said i don't doing events for one person.. hehe. It has more of a "PnP" feel when you have at least 2 people. But yea... this topic always comes up when we run events. When Duke ran his Shaper Plot we got another thread of disgruntled players who felt like they were being ignored. See how that happens? When you don't run events people complain because their is no DM visibility or opportunity for them to do anything. When you do run an event those that aren't involved feel left out and say favoritism. Some players need a DM holding their hand when they rp while others don't need us around. I wish i could find that happy medium. Clique's and groups are pretty much universal. Your just going to hang around with people you know and thats true on every server. |
Factions: Don't be afraid to shoot me a PM. Fraternity of Order Society Of Sensation Xaositects | |
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| Lutemasta | Sep 29 2011, 05:05 AM Post #17 |
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On my way back.
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This is not where I parked my car.. Ah there it is! ![]()
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Celdor - Retired Assasin Merrary Jather - Smiles the Suit Beldak Bazuzukin - Water Mephit Pest Kaldo Addams - Ex-Knight of the Cormyrian army and Sellsword Jiro Seadasher - The one and only. ![]() Lutemasta is GMT +4 | |
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| cryptc | Sep 29 2011, 06:00 AM Post #18 |
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Advisor
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Ok, I didn't read all of this, but just have to say, I do somewhat agree since I can count on one hand the number of events I've had the pleasure to be involved in at all. There is some favoritism going on and it doesn't include me ![]() So I wish I had event experiences to complain about, but I've not been that lucky. That said we are trying to improve things with an event arc, we just have many things to do and little time to do it in. |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| ManyFaced | Sep 29 2011, 06:41 AM Post #19 |
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Choosy testers choose Jif.
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I'm kinda surprised someone had the balls to post a thread like this, to be honest. Previous to this thread(from what I've seen) it's just been kept between players. Sure, there's a lot of things to explain the (balance of events, or loot) away. Many are valid, many are not. However, for some DMs, it's possible to say with certainty which four people their event could center on. This server kind of hits a point of ridiculousness in that regard, and I hope it's solved through open discussion.
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| "Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step." | |
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| Agony_Aunt | Sep 29 2011, 07:08 AM Post #20 |
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Get a Life
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Manyfaced - there should be never any worries about people voicing their opinion of how DMs are performing or what can be done to improve the server. We will not lock a thread as long as it remains positive and non-abusive and is not just running over the same old points. Now, if somebody has a problem with a specific DM or wants to be especially critical, then sure, via PM to one of the admins (or direct discussion with the DM) is definitely the way to go. What Kari did here was simply raise some concerns that she and some others have felt. Some of this perhaps can be improved upon, and i'm sure several of us DMs are now thinking about her words. Some of it we may disagree with, or believe not much we can (or should) do something about it. So, as long as this thread does not degenerate into finger pointing and abuse, i think its a good thing. As for "which four people", well, that depends on the DM of course, but personally I tend to jump on people quite randomly... so be careful what you wish for, you may just recieve it.
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| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Sep 29 2011, 08:49 AM Post #21 |
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I've got some events as Hex, Faer'Chik, Berrenny "Benny" and Coristia, not that the DMs really knew who they were doing events to but yes... generally getting events as a DM is even harder than players getting events which is why I tend to make more secret characters lately to have quality control over the events, player and DM behaviors.
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| Reptiller | Sep 29 2011, 11:24 AM Post #22 |
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Mimir
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Hah. So I've been right in my guesses all the time, Otyugh. That's unrelated though... Kari makes afew pretty fair points, even though the event inclusiveness and event grayness points -do- contradict each other. Afterall, black and white events will exclude certain aligments entirely. (EDIT: Actually Kari meant a different thing, as I was explained a tad later, so you can pretty much ignore this part of the post. Please ignore it.) I can't help but to point out that a character's personal power depends entirely on other PCs, as well as DMs. NPC use on DM Events has been discussed over what, a dozen times by now. The roots of that problem are pretty simple...It's that people rightfully want their RP rewards and the like to have any kind of usefulness. At the same time, such things have a fair chance of breaking an event. So I do think I'll have to repost this: 9 Virtues of NPC use by Reptiller(Hildmor): 1)Thou shalt never send NPC on an important task. If you have to, let the DM screw it up badly. They're mostly good for menial(but handy) tasks like getting more players involved in the things. 2)Thou shalt never ask for a ton of NPCs to add your in combat if such is going to happen. Too much clutter is bad for the server crash rate. You can always RP your army fighting together with you if you so desire(and allowed by the DM) while having yourself, your friends and your cohort. 3)Thou shalt never question the destiny of thy NPCs sent on a dangerous task. If they fail horribly and die the agonizing death, it makes perfect sense. 4)Thou shalt keep RPed level of thy warriors below 15. 5)Thou shalt not have thy warriors fight alone, -ever-. Unless thee intend to screw up for story reasons. 6)Thou shalt seek RP reason to -not- have thy warriors there before even asking the DM for them. 7)Thou shalt not be afraid to ask. 8)Thee shalt not be not afraid to ask twice. 9)Thou shalt seriously get thy ass out of dodge if you ask again(third time). No means no, find an reason for thy warriors to have dearrhea or family issues. With PCs...anything goes. NPCs can be useful but this game is an RPG, not an RTS. The only DnD based RTS(Not naming names for the sake of its possible fans) failed horribly IMO. NPCs(Hildmor's spies are a good example, he only gets "real" non-background RP intel from PCs) are mostly a background/plot devices. What one possessing NPCs can do is to propose a DM to use his or hers NPCs in an event before it even begins. That makes for best solution because it decreases story-mess-ups and horrible death scenarios considerably. Also, I sincerely apologize if this thread suddenly degrades into an NPC use thread because of this post
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| Kree | Sep 29 2011, 12:15 PM Post #23 |
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Namer
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These are pretty much my sentiments. I'm sad to see that there are apparantly some severe issues going on that drives people away but on the whole, I'm not part of it. 98% of the time, I have to go to sleep when DM things start to happen, 8% of the time I'm simply elsewhere due to lack of knowledge and the other 2% I can identify with the issue of the dominant level 30 sapping away my usefulness. I had fun with Oubliette and Ilmira's little sidestories that were tied to the bigger picture but I suppose those are part of the favoritism, being fairly private happenings so that's neither here nor there. I'd like knowing when DM sessions are going to happen so I have the chance to attend while the player faction driven RP (which should not be the primary source due to its encouragement of exclusiveness and in-groups) can pop up whenever it does. My quirky social science theory here is that with more organised, inclusive DM sessions, more characters would meet up that wouldn't even look at each other otherwise, leading to more cracks in the social bubbles in the off hours. |
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| BreakNova | Sep 29 2011, 12:49 PM Post #24 |
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Cutter
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Hey all, Just wanted to add my two cents based on my experience with other playerworlds. I've only been casually playing here for about two months or so, so I've not been in really any events at all until this week and an introductory event one of the DMs gave me and another player when we first arrived on the server. Coming from a few other persistent worlds, one thing I notice about DMs is they do events for people because they want to do events for those people. Their characters inspire and intrigue them and they love to see how your character reacts in situations. I know this from experience being a DM on another server. While I did my best to make my events universal and open to all, there were always those few exceptional players I absolutely loved to see during the RP. I wouldn't necessarily call a lack of events favortism on the DMs part. Everyone gets the spotlight from time to time, some longer than others. Every DM does that. The best way to get involved is to, well, get involved. ![]() Find those players, get involved with their story, RP with them. Develop your character into something compelling and unique. Don't be afraid to let your character get thier knees skinned from time to time or be a victim of something. Asking for attention isn't going to gain you it. In fact it will probably do the opposite. Like Mr. O said, DMs don't get much of any events at all on thier player characters. I know that from experience because that's what happened to me too. I made the best of it either way by being a supportive character, helping other characters with their stories, developing my own and putting effort into my character to make her deep and well-rounded and had a blast doing it! In time, other characters began to revolve around her and BAM one of the staff wanted to do something for my character. Then after it was over, another character in that group got to be part of something. Be encouraging, develop a story of your own, and don't be dependent on DM attention. Player driven RP can be just as fun if not more fun than anything a DM can do. 90% of my time on my last server as a player was player driven RP, battling the villains or the goody-good PCs with my PCs. The best RP I've ever had was all player driven. DMs can't be there for everyone and the spotlight gets passed around more than people will admit. Older players, be courteous of new players getting attention. As a veteran player who's been around the block for so long, you may want to consider getting out of the driver's seat and taking on a supportive role, let someone else drive and get the feel for the server for a little while. The problem with older servers is that new players hardly get any attention at all. So don't be discouraged if you get a lack of events. It happens. Share the spotlight, show your support, and it will come back around to you again. All you'll get in the end is not only what you wanted, but the DMs gratitude as well. |
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| Pashan01 | Sep 29 2011, 01:44 PM Post #25 |
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The Pink Inspirator
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Wot BreakNova said aye.*nods, nods* STOP reading now if you have bad eyesight or cannot face Pasha in waffle mode. There you are warned. I got invited to Ana's event as Naya recently which a DM helped with, that was nice and different yes yes. I got specific 1-2-1 player-char play with an ending that unexpectedly then involved a DM at the end, giving it an additional wow factor. Wasn't needed or expected but yes, was lovely when it happened. Other than that, dun think I get much involved in any regular events and I certainly can NEVER make the epic campaigns due to my fixed/limited play times, early to bed routine. I am usually on the periphery of the random stuff that happens in the main areas and just an on looker but its nice to see and even just do that from the sidelines. And I do enjoy and miss the simple pnp style adventure stuff - but try to grab that with other player/chars who enjoy that too and make it for ourselves. Mostly, I try to get involved with player-driven stories when mood and time permits, though lately with other things on in RL, my drive has been flagging and I've turned to simpler/spontaneous play. I know it will pick up again however. On the points: 1-Feelings of favoritism toward certain characters or organizations Those in personal power can be sometimes be off-putting/intimidating but I think there is an assumption that they get the attention - if they do the RP, get the crowd via forum or ingame, then attention I feel is duely deserved - apparently though it sounds like that does not happen as I would have expected - because maybe, there IS an assumption that they have it all already? Or can 'do for themselves' so let them? - that aint 'fair' either. More recently, I've found that they really do assist to 'create' RP as Neli says, all credit to them, giving the world flavour. It is hard to have patience to stick around and promote like that with a changing populace of players and characters. I know I do not have the patience for that 'hanging' around for the time I get, my creative juices are inspired in other ways - there is merit in that kind of play - it is not 'just' standing round talking of the weather RP. So props to them very muchly for providing that reliable, regularity and continuity and interest for others to connect with. 2-Feeling no sense of accomplishment in any of the events, or deliberately being cut out of events due to other circumstances. I can only add to the 'accomplishment' aspect, personally, if the event has given me reason to a) develop my character in some way, b) allowed me to bring my character out in a group, c) made me laugh doing it, and last but not least b) given me a fun story to write up for a character the next day, I am more than happy. It would be a lie to say that I don't like the widgets and the fun toys, little handouts, something 'new' and fun to RP with, but I nor my chars need that ueber blade of awesomeness to make me/them smile. 3-Too many events end without any kind of resolution, or the bad guys always "get away" / win. Again, I've not been party to the DM events/campaigns where this has happened, though many of my player-driven stuff has petered out without resolution. It takes more than the one to get things going sometimes and if one pouffs/runs out of puff, the rest can crumple. Have a vent and move on . Many of my ideas have pouffed along the way. Break and try again is my advice. As for bad guys always getting away with it lol, hells, gives us goodies a reason to play and live methinks - there are some baddies I want ressurected for fun sake and will purposely ooc help in any way if its 'good evil play to encourage some play they are doing for others. One idea: we should have a witch burning every other month for the goodies - hells, I'll even volunteer to make a nasty ebil character once for everyone to take a pitchfork to (on one proviso - neither Duke, MrO or PoV are allowed to join in - there that is my exclusion a) Duke would be truly evil in his goodness, b) MrO because I would laugh too much at him trying to play good for me to play evil convincingly c) PoV - just because I like to spoil his fun and the number of postcounts he makes - admittedly I'm not that sneaky or clever to make it a mega plot of awesomeness. Now your turn - I'm sure you can do better! 4 -Feelings of exclusion to people with lvl 30 mains from events -either they aren't events the character would participate in, or they are barred from it because of lvl caps. Again, not been there, those are only one style of events that happen and ones I rarely can participate in. But personally I do not have any level 30's out there anymore, and I do not make characters just to join in a particular event unless it suits me to make them. I see what chars I have may fit and what I wish to play. The one I did have at level 30, got delevelled severely to start over again and refresh/find new story in the process. I do get bored sometimes in my high level chars none the less, not knowing where to go next in development but that does not mean I wish to end their story or stop playing them but a break is sometimes good - plus I get an urge to go scoot about in another character which I enjoy. But RP is there to be made too - to give not just to take/expect. If you have the ability to 'create' RP, use it, explore it, it reaps its own rewards. We all have different styles though. Okay I've waffled enough and may or may not have added my two pennies to the pot. So skip and read the post above this one. Its more succinct.:D *reads back up o.O I'll post it anyway but I'm not sure there are any words of wisdom in that lot. Blame it on a boring day at work.* |
'BeZ' - skeleton Piri - pixieOthers: Naya'il McEwan - wife to Kelth, priestess of Pelor Lyra - elven tattoo artiste Sirin - charmer of beasts Rith - sarky scavenger rogue ..to name a few | |
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| Ravel's Heart | Sep 29 2011, 02:03 PM Post #26 |
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Gah! This is totally my fault, Neli! I forget what I was doing when you asked, but when I was done it completely slipped my mind. Sorry! I would certainly have replaced your stool! |
| "What can change the nature of a man?" | |
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| cryptc | Sep 29 2011, 02:27 PM Post #27 |
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Advisor
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*sacrifices Ravel to the angry mob*
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| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| WhenWizardsWar | Sep 29 2011, 02:48 PM Post #28 |
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Factotum
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I have a few things to say in response to the OP. Your points, your nit picks you will find on any server, its just the human dynamic when dealing with mmorpgs. It sounds like the op is pining for a perfect world and it wont happen, even if the staff somehow addresses the issues it will be fine for now, or a month or a year but eventually it returns. I DO however have to agree with her on one point. All of the dm events i have been in have been massivly long (one was at least five hours) and while i personally have had the attention span to sit them out, real life often doesnt afford me such time and i have been forced to leave early every time before the cliff hanger of the current event. Im all for an epic event like the ones i have been in but try cutting them down to an hour, maybe two and you can stretch them out longer, which means more of them which is a bonus for the players and it wont burn you guys out as dms. A second thing, i know we have alot of dms but it would be nice to see more on regularly, i dont know about the majority of the servers time zones but the EST time zone seems to rarely have more then one maybe two on at a time, and while i know one dm is more then capable of handling a (at best) personel list of 18-25 players it would be nice to have a few more on. -Simple math, two dms equals possibly two events so the fifteen out of twenty five players who missed the depature train for DM X's event can still have fun with DM Y instead of having to always wait for DM X's events to continue. Other then this i really see no validity in the OP's opening remarks but thats just me. |
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I play: Miranda Ildesserin-"You have no idea what fear is, the greatest fear a mother can have is that of her child growing up...alone" Eisinar Mindblade: Illithid Soul Knife: "As long as I have my mind, i am never with out a weapon". Xil'ar'ran'oss-Beholder Psion:What do you mean "IF" looks could kill? | |
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| Agony_Aunt | Sep 29 2011, 03:02 PM Post #29 |
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Get a Life
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Well, Ravel has just apologised for that, but don't feel left out. I (with one of my characters) stole Hildmor's stool... and still haven't replaced it after repeated requests. You and Reptiller could start a club - the No Stool Club! Seriously though, you know, sometimes we DMs get distracted, waylaid, trying to do too many things at once, we forget things, and sometimes we just collapse. Please understand that sometimes replacing a lost stool is not at the top of our list of priorities. As for missing out on events, sometimes it happens. Sometimes its just about being in the right place at the right time more than anything else. If some players get more events, well, its not necessarily because the DMs are showing favouritism, its just some players are pretty persistent on the server and seem to have a nose for sniffing out when an event is going on and know how to RP their way into it. And hope this doesn't make you feel too bad, but i've even told DMs in the past to go away and annoy someone else, that i didn't want an event.
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| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Tomekk | Sep 29 2011, 03:14 PM Post #30 |
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Dark Soul
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And I'm a a happy camper if I am around when one of them suddenly happens... or get to be involved and you know, accomplish something (without the DM f*cking up my character's sense of achievement afterwards), since a lot of them take place after midnight when someone who doesn't drink coffee isn't in his best shape <.< After spending here more then a year, I can count all the plots I've had a reasonable involvement in, on one hand ![]() end whine(); |
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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which is why I tend to make more secret characters lately to have quality control over the events, player and DM behaviors.





12:24 AM Jul 11