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playing a druid
Topic Started: Jul 1 2012, 12:53 PM (595 Views)
Er_Nano_Infame
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EL NANO!!
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i never understood much how all the shape and companion stuff of druid worked...
can highlight characteristics, hints, issues?
how the different backgrounds works?
what are the stats of those shapes and companions?
how spells and equipments applies to those shapes?
the base abilities (str, cons, dex...) of the druid morphed in some being are peculiar of that certain shape (indipendent to unmorphed druid's stats), or reflect druid's unmorphed base abitilites (for istance getting bonuses depending in which form he morph)?
base stats are the same for the morphed druid and his companion, if they are the same being?

was thinking for a druid that fight in wild shape (so unarmed, right?), along with his buffed companion, and mostly use healing and buffs spells

thanks in advance
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Mr_Otyugh
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Druids have several different background traits:
  • On with the backgrounds and their forms. First form listed is the basic form, the second one is the "dire" form obtained at level 12.

    Druid of the Woods
    Similar to the regular forms, but keeps the standard shapes when he should get Dire forms but with the Dire forms stats.

    Druid of the Elements
    This Druid likely grew up on one of the elemental plains. Genasi are highly likely to be this sort of Druid.
    Strength: Minor Earth Elemental/ (level 12) Weak Earth Elemental
    Dexterous: Minor Air Elemental/ (level 12) Weak Air Elemental
    Resilient: Minor Water Elemental/ (level 12) Weak Water Elemental
    Special: Minor Fire Elemental/ (level 12) Weak Fire Elemental

    Druid of the Jungle
    Perfect for a Druid that plans of having a Dinosaur animal companion
    Strength: Deinonychus/ (level 12) Megaraptor
    Dexterous: Python/ (level 12) Anaconda
    Resilient: Bombardier Beetle/ (level 12) Giant Stag Beetle
    Special: Young Panther/ (level 12) Adult Panther

    Druid of the Desert
    Strength: Young Giant Scorpion/ (level 12) Adult Giant Scorpion
    Dexterous: Young Leopard/ (level 12) Adult Leopard
    Resilient: Young Fire Beetle/ (level 12) Adult Fire Beetle
    Special: Young Basilisk/ (level 12) Adult Basilisk

    Druid of the Underdark
    Highly suited to Drow, Deep Gnome, and Duregar characters.
    Strength: Young Umber Hulk/ (level 12) Adult Umber Hulk
    Dexterous: Young Giant Spider/ (level 12) Adult Giant Spider
    Resilient: Young Carrion Crawler/ (level 12) Adult Carrion Crawler
    Special: Giant Rat/ (level 12) Dire Rat

    Druid of the Cold/Mountains
    Strength: Young Mountain Cat/ (level 12) Adult Mountain Cat
    Dexterous: Young Snow Leopard/ (level 12) Adult Snow Leopard
    Resilient: Young Arctic Wolf/ (level 12) Adult Arctic Wolf
    Special: Wolverine/ (level 12) Dire Wolverine
Hints:
- Druids can amass very high wisdom quite easily that can give very high spell DC, on downside a lot of their spells are actually quite terrible. I repeat, terrible. They're not a prime caster for offensive spells, but you shouldn't entirely dismiss their spellcasting in any case. Owls Insight gives also a lot boost.
- Natural Spellcasting allows you to cast in shapes, and remember that if you have animal shape, then animal concentrated spells works at your shapechanged character.
- Druids have pretty dreadful damage dealing capability, but they have very good survivability.
- The cliche 1 level of monk AC applies to shapechanges, and being high-wisdom class anyway it's quite handy.
- Spellslots gets screwed constantly with shapechanges... use owls wisdom before changing shape to prevent it if you have wisdom bonus item.

Str, dex and con aren't too important if you use wildshapes and shapechanges frequently and base character around them, instead concentrate on the other stuff. The physical abilities are entirely tied to the shapechange. Wis, int and cha aren't as restricted, but item bonuses vanish during shapechanges.

Only armor applies stats (unless that's changed from NWN1? Haven't been too avid user of shapechanges in NWN2)


Str, dex and con are potentially same for both, other abilities are up for debate.
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Agony_Aunt
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Druids have some very nice spells. Unfortunately, most of them are AoE and will affect friendlies, so if you are in a party where the players tend to just wade in just where you are about to place your spell, well, either fire off a Mass Drown and laugh at them when they lose 90% of their HP, or don't cast and wade in yourself.

Druids are excellent tanks as they can have insane AC. 60AC is easily possible with a dip of monk. Forget about damage when facing foes with DR though while shapechanged unless they are weak to fire (flame weapon) or electricity (storm avatar).

One thing i did change was to allow Weapon Spec feats in Creature Weapon. You got to take 12 levels of Fighter to get Epic Weapon Spec (Creature Weapon), and damn, i never updated their descriptions, but there are some tricky issues here - best look at my update on the topic - IIRC you take Weapon Focus in Unarmed for Weapon Spec in Creature Weapon... ill dig up the post....

Ah, found it:

Creature Weapon Specialization: This one takes a little brain twisting to get your head around thanks to Obsidian's idiocy. Creature Weapons benefit from Unarmed combat feats except Weapon Specialization feats for which you need the creature weapon feat. Insanity yes? To get the Weapon Spec feats for Creature Weapons you need Wildshape and the regular required feat from the Unarmed line. Eg: With a Druid 5/Fighter 4, if you have already taken Weapon Focus (Unarmed) you will qualify for Weapon Specialization (Creature Weapon). Similar also applies for Greater and Epic forms of those feats.

Here is the full announcement: http://z13.invisionfree.com/nwn2planescape...?showtopic=5108
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deusex2
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I wouldn't call a Druid an excellent tank(even my arcane caster has 60 AC while using Horned Devil form).

But yeah, mass drown is a nasty treat and on top of that, don't the have a tortoise shell and elemental swarm with storm of vengeance and avatar of storms make Druid quite and annoying opponent in the right hands. Oh yeah, he also has a premonition spell... Not sure about spell mantle/breach/dispell though...
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Mr_Otyugh
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Mass Drown seems much nicer than it really is. It's dangerous to use and doesn't even kill people (one could argue that implosion also works against allies, true, but at least you can make your allies immune to it... there's no immunity to drown so in group and against self it's potentially deadly and most of times you probably won't use it), in comparison to cleric and wizard 9th level versions it's actually pretty weak. I played a spirit shaman caster and while they can make some beating, in comparison to clerics or wizard spell lists, I felt like druids are actually getting the weakest of the three. Like other two (healing/offense), but weaker in both practically :P
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deusex2
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Mr_Otyugh,Jul 1 2012
04:43 PM
Mass Drown seems much nicer than it really is. It's dangerous to use and doesn't even kill people (one could argue that implosion also works against allies, true, but at least you can make your allies immune to it... there's no immunity to drown so in group and against self it's potentially deadly and most of times you probably won't use it), in comparison to cleric and wizard 9th level versions it's actually pretty weak. I played a spirit shaman caster and while they can make some beating, in comparison to clerics or wizard spell lists, I felt like druids are actually getting the weakest of the three. Like other two (healing/offense), but weaker in both practically :P

Errr...Stone/Iron Body is supposed to provide immunity to drowning and if I'm not mistaken elementals can't drown ;)

And yeah-shamans are extra-gimp. At least druids get to change shapes and to turn into a dragon.
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Agony_Aunt
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Spirit Shamans can rock in certain places. Nifelheim for example. A Sprit Shaman/Stormlord can be quite fierce.
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Mr_Otyugh
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deusex2,Jul 1 2012
07:25 PM
Mr_Otyugh,Jul 1 2012
04:43 PM
Mass Drown seems much nicer than it really is. It's dangerous to use and doesn't even kill people (one could argue that implosion also works against allies, true, but at least you can make your allies immune to it... there's no immunity to drown so in group and against self it's potentially deadly and most of times you probably won't use it), in comparison to cleric and wizard 9th level versions it's actually pretty weak. I played a spirit shaman caster and while they can make some beating, in comparison to clerics or wizard spell lists, I felt like druids are actually getting the weakest of the three. Like other two (healing/offense), but weaker in both practically :P

Errr...Stone/Iron Body is supposed to provide immunity to drowning and if I'm not mistaken elementals can't drown ;)

And yeah-shamans are extra-gimp. At least druids get to change shapes and to turn into a dragon.

Neither which are druid spells ;) and they don't in NWN2.
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phantomhermit
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So elementals can be drowned as per the druid of the elements?
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Agony_Aunt
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Druid of the elements is a background and gives different forms (elemental ones) and yes, if Mr_O is correct, then they can be drown.

I do disagree with Mr_O about the usefulness of Drown, especially the mass variant.

Dropped it on a group of devils and demons in the Abyss last night, about 10 of them. About 8 of them failed the saves/SR checks. The damage numbers were quite impressive especially on the Horned Devils (there were 2 of those in the mix).

Considering my damage output is sucky thanks to elemental and physcial DR of the monsters, that single Mass Drown saved about 5 mins of combat.

Actually, the DR is the biggest pain. Looking at the stats my druid and his companion should be doing a decent amount of damage. Cant remember exactly, but here is roughly how it looks:

Companion:
1d8 (base) + 1d8 Fire (Flame Weapon) + 5 (Greater Magic Fang) + 9 (STR bonus) + 1d10 Cold (Coldberry) = 28.5 Average

Me (in Dragon Form):
1d12 (base) + 1d8 Fire (Flame Weapon) + 5 (Greater Magic Fang) + 9 (STR Bonus) + 3d6 Electrical (Storm Avatar) = 35.5 Average.

Against most creatures the fire damage gets wasted. Against Devils the Cold damage goes wasted and against demons the electrical.

Quite annoying really.

Should really make alternate elemental variants of Flame Weapon in order to be able to adjust tactics depending on the enemy you are fighting. Or better still, figure out why I couldn't get creature weapons with different materials working.
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deusex2
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Mr_Otyugh,Jul 1 2012
06:24 PM
Neither which are druid spells ;) and they don't in NWN2.

I know those two are not druid spells, but it can help groupmates(and if a druid has some UMD, then he can pop it before the fight), but it really sucks that elementals can drown in NWN2 :( Kinda funny, though, water elemental dies by getting drowned :)
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Mr_Otyugh
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Agony_Aunt,Jul 2 2012
10:11 AM
I do disagree with Mr_O about the usefulness of Drown, especially the mass variant.

It's overhyped spell, it's by far less useful than it appears. Storm of Vengeance is actually better. And as I said in comparison to wizard and cleric alternatives... you cast one spell to not kill them... where as a cleric or wizard would've cast one spell and killed 8 out of 10. It's okay in druid spell list, but if it was spell in cleric or wizard spell list, you wouldn't even pick it :P If you have high fortitude save it can be alright since at least then you can surround yourself with it.

Mass drown is used because there's simply nothing better, but it actually isn't that awesome either.


re: Elementals, that I think is true that they can't be drowned, but usually you're weakening yourself for going elemental form. It's why you barely ever see anyone using that form in the high levels :P I spoke of stonebody and ironbody.

And there's more amusing ways to die too like first drown and then dehydration kills (rather than negate each other) :P or that outsiders are immune to swamp lung, but not to drown.
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Er_Nano_Infame
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EL NANO!!
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should add some spells more for druid/shaman spell list then *wisenod*
swarm curse is nice, but it take time to work

anyway, thanks for explanations so far

edit: question: if in the i get a druid of lv 28, plus couple lvls in other class, and i add natural bond and epic animal companion, my animal companion is considered as of a druid of...? 33° lv? or it would stop at lv 30 of druid? natural bond is worth takin in this case (with a lv28 druid and epic animal companion)?
Maewind:''That's still plant-hating! That makes you a plant racist!''

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Higher Porpoise
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I wish we could get elementals as druid pets. :(
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Agony_Aunt
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Not 100%. Epic Animal Companion will break the 30 barrier. Natural Bond says it shouldn't, but there again, there are other feats (Practiced Caster comes to mind) that don't work how they say they will.

What i can say is the top template for companions is for effective levels 33-35, that's the best version you can get.

So...

Druid 30 + Epic Animal Companion should get you the best version.
Druid 30 + Natural Bond should only give you the level 30 version.
Druid 28 + 2 levels of something else + Natural Bond + Epic Animal Companion should get you the best version.

And Higher Porpoise. I wish I could play an Elemental with a pet Druid :P

Actually, it would be possible to add additional feats (like Dinosaur or Dragon Companion Feats) to give more animal companion choice.... just not something considering at the moment. Druids got enough love earlier in the year.
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