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New player thoughts required
Topic Started: Jul 9 2012, 06:56 PM (901 Views)
Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
If there's any new or at least relatively new players browsing through the forums and not too shy to discuss, then I have something where I might need thy thoughts and opinions. To define 'new' lets say someone whom considers they are new or relatively new to community and whom hasn't been around for years already.

I and couple others are working on making new and far improved guide and information source and I'd hope to take new player thoughts in count, while I could ask bunch of oldies well I already have bunch of those opinions so don't per say need them :P

You can reply either here or send me a private message. There's no right or wrong answer here either, mostly it's for me to consider how to adjust the new guides best for the purpose of players. And yes, I know in game information source is necessary as well.

So here are the couple questions I currently have:
  • - What makes you choose a server which you attempt to try out?
    - What kind of questions do you currently have of SCoD, eiher mechanics, lore or other types questions you'd prefer to be clarified?
    - Things you usually try to look for first time you hop in to a server?
    - How do you prefer to learn things? (i.e. are you a quiet browser whom prefers to just study things alone, or generally speaking you first ask from people than study any information sources?)
We've made quite huge changes to the guides to be more modern and far more up to date so there will be less emphasis to quantity of text without really removing amount of information provided. That's the plan anyhow and thus far I feel we've succeeded quite well.

If some of the new players also feels like it, I can give access to test-read the new guides and see if you feel like they're fitting (though mind you, not all even finished) and if something is confusing to give us feedback of such.
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Derror
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I personally can't attest much to what would make me choose a server to try (as I tagged along with Neelis to join here, this is pretty much my first NWN2 multiplayer experience), but the few things I feel would be important:

1. Further clarification on certain aspects of global rules.

This would include things like, if you join the server with a group of friends, what exactly muleing details (not passing items to your own characters through friends, but giving an item you get to a friend's character (with RP of course) is ok, at least has been my current understanding of that rule).

2. What specifics have been added or altered on the server.

For the most part, I saw this in-game through the Soul item (and appreciated being able to see what I did), but this seems to be more directed at what was already existent and how it changed (such as spells), and not new things exclusive to the server (such as a couple feats, have seen new "basic" things like ammo that was better than the standard "Arrows", but not magically enchanted for elemental damage). I would imagine a lot of the "new item" things want to be kept hush-hush, on the basis of exploration and discovery. And I'm fine with that, the problem starts when I (for instance) as an archer, need Alchemically Silvered arrows to fight Were-rats, and drop 1,000g at ~8-10th Level for two stacks, when (apparently) I can ask a weaponsmith to help me make the same amount of arrows for a (significantly) smaller cost. Also, since feats are sometimes things you want to plan out, knowing in-advance what is available is helpful.

3. The Death-Penalty and You: Why it really isn't as bad as it seems.

This one is partially due to personal idiocy (finding it when I was half-asleep and then forgetting to look back into it later was smooth on my part), but if one of the "major-attraction" points of the server is a less-severe death penalty, it should probably be pointed out that you can exchange base currency (gold/jink) into something that will not be forcefully taken from you if you mess up and eat Attacks of Opportunity due to engaging an action you didn't intend (trying to click-to-attack an enemy and clicking the ground instead, for instance). Let's just say that, between what was seemingly-high gear costs (see 2), and accidental deaths at 7-14 (I learned about planar coins around level 14), I've had quite a few days where I've lost lots more money than I ended up making.

Lore hasn't been a huge ordeal, due to most of the knowledge or background being readily available in-game (through books) or through RP. I prefer quiet observation or lurking forums for information, but several years of forum posts to learn about server features was not only daunting, but disheartening and discouraging as well. I am very glad that there was agreement that info needed to be compiled, as I'm also one of the kinds of people who never remembers everything that needed to be asked, so I try not to ask so I don't bother people every couple minutes, for several hours :P

If you would like me to be a guinea-pig for constructive criticism, I would be happy to do so. My major complaint thus-far (after hearing about the project) was that I felt that I was missing so much information, that I might as well just wait to see just how much I was, in-fact, missing. Between being first-time for the server, and first-time for NWN2 multiplayer (I didn't even get a good grip on Storm of Zehir, so I stayed away from crafting since the OC crafting gave me a headache), I'm sure I'll learn something. Just less-frustrating to find out what's going on if I have a way to say "This is information I'll find on, say, the NWN2 wiki." or "This is information I won't be able to find anywhere because it's just on the server.", if that makes any sense.

Short version: I have thoughts! Wheeee! I'll share them if you want! I just don't want to bug everybody constantly since everybody is also trying to have fun! Wheeeee!
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Mr_Otyugh
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Thanks for the feedback.

Gave you access to the guide forums, details in a PM.
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Reptiller
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Mimir
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I believe someone wants me to lose my job. :(

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Silverfish
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Blood
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Mr_Otyugh,Jul 9 2012
06:56 PM
What makes you choose a server which you attempt to try out?

Population, whether or not it seems like a good roleplay setting and how asinine the rules are.

Quote:
 
What kind of questions do you currently have of SCoD, eiher mechanics, lore or other types questions you'd prefer to be clarified?

I only found out there was a list of changes to the server about a week ago. Prior to that I scoured around and couldn't find anything because I was looking for, 'server changes', 'custom features', etc. and the thread is 'SCoD in a Nutshell', which I glossed over expecting it to be a mission statement or something. On the other hand, lore is very well represented and easy to find.

Quote:
 
Things you usually try to look for first time you hop in to a server?

People, character and outfit customisation options and any mechanics information I couldn't find on the forum.

Quote:
 
How do you prefer to learn things? (i.e. are you a quiet browser whom prefers to just study things alone, or generally speaking you first ask from people than study any information sources?)

A little of both to be honest. I tend to read a little, ask a little, read a little and ask a little, much like when you eat a burger and you have a little bit of the milkshake to wash down the burger.


Hope that helps :3 I think I'm fairly new, at least compared to some of my friends here on the server. I'd say my closest friends are A.Thereal and CapV and they've been around since wheels were first discovered.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Thanks for your feedback as well, sent you PM too regarding the guide forums.
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Ravel's Heart
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Welcome, Derror.

A couple of thoughts on things you said:

-We're glad you started with us! Hope you're getting settled in.

-What ever made you start playing a 6 year-old bugfest?! :lol:

-Some of the things you said about muling (just as an example) serve to illustrate some of the assumptions most people have about NWN2. I don't know of any NWN2 server where muling is allowed, for example. But if you've never played before, you might not even know the term.

-The beauty of the Planescape setting is that lore is less important than imagination and creativity. The setting has a built-in excuse for not knowing about Factions, Planes, Portals, Sigil, or the Lady of Pain. "Berk's clueless, he is." More importantly, planar travel means that your can draw from any number of fantasy settings for inspiration, including your own custom setting.

-Sometimes I think that some of the SCoD features penalize shy people. You specifically mention arrows in your post, but the fact is that it makes no sense to buy almost any weapons, armor, or items from merchants. The idea is to force people to interact by making it economically insane to do commerce with anyone other than another player. It's a good idea. The downside, of course, is that I am sure you are not the first person who ever logged in, played for a while, and thought, "I'll be level 20 before I can afford a +2 armor."

It makes sense when you understand why. After you've played a while, it's second nature not to even bother with merchants. But when you are brand new it makes everything seem impossible.

I wonder how we could help make that more obvious for people.

In any event, welcome again to SCoD. It's a fun place. Good RP.

It's a magical, far away place where the sun is always shining and the air smells like warm root beer, and the towels are oh so fluffy... Where the shriners and the lepers play their ukuleles all day long, and anyone on the street will glady shave your back for a nickel.
"What can change the nature of a man?"
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Ravel's Heart
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Silverfish, you're not new anymore! You're on your second avatar already! :lol:
"What can change the nature of a man?"
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
Oh and yes, I know the initial work is mostly forum based, but after these are done, I'll have easier time making some in game versions (because frankly there's always a lot of players that don't even browse forums), alas due to limitations of NWN2, they'll be far less impressive, and likely become outdated a lot faster.
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Ravel's Heart
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Mr. O, what happened to the NPCs I made for your contest way-back-when? Grinny (the mirmir) and Chezz were their names.

They had a pretty lengthy conversation with some SCoD-specific hints about portals, keys, planes, and where to get started. It has been a very long time since I wrote their dialog, but my recollection is that there was also a little bit about exchanging in commerce with PCs rather than NPC merchants.

I could probably update that conversation to make it more representative of the latest iteration of SCoD if that is something you would want to consider.
"What can change the nature of a man?"
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ManyFaced
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Choosy testers choose Jif.
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Ravel's Heart,Jul 9 2012
11:40 PM
Mr. O, what happened to the NPCs I made for your contest way-back-when?  Grinny (the mirmir) and Chezz were their names.

They had a pretty lengthy conversation with some SCoD-specific hints about portals, keys, planes, and where to get started.  It has been a very long time since I wrote their dialog, but my recollection is that there was also a little bit about exchanging in commerce with PCs rather than NPC merchants.

I could probably update that conversation to make it more representative of the latest iteration of SCoD if that is something you would want to consider.

Ooh, almost forgot about that. Did any of the NPC contest winners make it into the module?
"Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step."
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Mr_Otyugh
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Not really, they were on my previous computer that broke, I think I may still have them on my email, just haven't had the energy to go through the editing work again. I'll look into them at some point though.
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Vilanth Thistlewind
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Right so... the reason I chose this server was because my friends Neelis & Derror and I think Arman was here or he may have been after I joined .. already having issues remembering -.- but anyway!) They were already testing it out a few days before they told me about it. Since I grew up playing D&D with the folks and their friends. The good memories and the chance to play with fellow D&D fans and to expand on my current P&P character with the rest of the group was a great idea and allowed for further exploration and development, so here I am.

As for my questions, I’m having trouble formulating them into coherent and proper questions… instead of fragmented thoughts and the little sister pestering of Why, why, why?
I tend to be one of those who’ll ask a few questions here and there as they crop up.. as well as browse through the current information and maybe even go look up actual setting books to get information about the lore and such Or I’ll bug Neelis and Derror ;)

For the most part I do tend to jump in and see what happens and what information I can glean IC though I’ve had instances where I’ve been told to go to the forums…

Anyway; Much Like Derror, This Is my very first server to ever attempt playing on and only the second time I’ve attempted to utilize the NWN2 game.. So there are a lot of my actual D&D experiences that are conflicting with how the setting and system in the computer version work… I have no clue how the crafting system works… which was why I ended up making another character to give that a poke…

in regard to the player based economy… If any base line price information can be supplied that would be great especially for new blood on the server since this aspect can be daunting… As I’m unfamiliar with NWN and the like…, with only P&P price guide lines to reference… well I’m sure you can see the issue there….… Yeah I can go and ask IC folks to give me a quote on items... but the variance in the price range I get is vast… yeah some folks will have different standards than others.
Then of course my issue then ends up being, how am I supposed to hang on to stuff till I can actually find someone interested in the items if I can’t afford to get the items required for a bag of holding or save up to buy one from a merchant. Maybe it is just me being whiny as a new player… but gold is not easy to come by or hold onto when you keep getting your butt kicked which is why I’ve been taking advantage of the planar coin exchange since even now I tend to visit the Dustmen at least four or five times a day when I decide to go poke something ... but such is the life of an overly adventurous hin from time to time, right? ^-^;;
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Ravel's Heart
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Vilanth Thistlewind,Jul 10 2012
09:30 AM
in regard to the player based economy… If any base line price information can be supplied that would be great especially for new blood on the server since this aspect can be daunting… As I’m unfamiliar with NWN and the like…, with only  P&P price guide lines to reference… well I’m sure you can see the issue there….… Yeah I can go and ask IC folks to

The variance is, in many ways, the point.

There are people who will sell an item at some cost that they "think it should be worth."

Other people will sell pretty good items for 310gp just to unload it at a better price than they are getting from merchants.

There is a very wide range of variability on what you can expect to pay.

Quote:
 
Then of course my issue then ends up being, how am I supposed to hang on to stuff till I can actually find someone interested in the items if I can’t afford to get the items required for a bag of holding or save up to buy one from a merchant. Maybe it is just me being whiny as a new player… but gold is not easy to come by or hold onto when you keep getting your butt kicked which is why I’ve been taking advantage of the planar coin exchange since even now I tend to visit the Dustmen at least four or five times a day when I decide to go poke something  ... but such is the life of an overly adventurous hin from time to time, right?  ^-^;;


A couple recommendations here:

1) Hang on to any gems or ammo that you find. They're weightless and you cal sell them at need.

2) Like almost anything else, bags of holding are much, much less expensive from crafters than they are from NPC merchants. Once you make friends with a good crafter, many will make things for you at or near cost.

3) Sell heavy items with low enchantments, even if you feel like they should be more than you're getting for them. I know it's aggravating selling +2 Full Plate for 300 gp, but you are not going to get any better price for it, and it's heavy!

4) This is much easier said than done, but don't get killed! I'm sure that sounds like I'm being a wise guy, but dying in a party where no one has the capability to raise you can be painful.

Be cautious.

Go slowly.

Use Tarion.

5) Did I say "Use Tarion"? His buffs will probably be the difference between a quick death and breezing through a map or two, particularly at low levels.

Better still? Get one of those worthless epics standing arout at Khazeet's doing nothing to fully gerbil-ball you for 150gp. Many will do it for free, and then you have better buffs with longer durations.

Brux is manageable at low levels with just a few good buffs, and will give tenfold better XP than undersigil as well as more loot.


6) This sounds counterintuitive, but I think it's true... Drop down a couple of levels.

You are probably going to find a few points where you are getting pitiful XP for the area you're on, but you are not ready to move up to the next map. It's a strange thing, but dropping down a few levels may actually speed your progress in the long run.

If you have some better equipment, those first few levels will be easier the second (or third or fourth) time around, and you will be banking XP in both of your pools, not to mention picking up a little more gold to spend on something that might help you make the jump later.

7) Ask.

If you are having one of those, "Boom. You're dead. Boom You're dead. Boom. You're dead." kind of days, ask someone for an idea.

Most of the maps have one or two tricks that turn them from death traps into surviveable prospects.

"What can change the nature of a man?"
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Agony_Aunt
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Get a Life
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Vilanth Thistlewind,Jul 10 2012
02:30 PM
Then of course my issue then ends up being, how am I supposed to hang on to stuff till I can actually find someone interested in the items if I can’t afford to get the items required for a bag of holding or save up to buy one from a merchant.

Or just dump it... lots of stuff you will never sell.

However, i have found auctions to be a good way of getting top price for items, or combine things into a collection.

You'll never sell most scrolls, but put them into a bag of lots of them and youll get a decent price.

Same goes with potions. You'll have a hard time selling 1 sequencer potion, but collect 10 or 20 and i bet you'll get a decent offer.
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