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The use of Sensate stones and their accuracy
Topic Started: Jul 11 2012, 07:14 PM (415 Views)
Darkrob
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I wanted to bring this up as it has always bothered me just a little. It’s the complete reliance of everyone on Sensate stones. It’s to the point that if someone even mutters a threat against another, all it takes is that person walking into the festhall and creating a stone to take to the Harmonium. No witnesses needed... ever. Simply hand over the stone and it’s done. It’s as if everyone in the entire city comes equipped with a video camera installed right on their forehead.

This really REALLY limits the ability of people to play shady characters as anything they say, anything they do, anything they plan or anyone they socialize with can automatically be “recorded” and handed over to authorities with zero effort. The way they’re used it’s surprising that there are any bad guys in Sigil at all! They’d all be on tape doing something at some point and the Harmonium and Fraternity could move on them all.

So… my question is, and it’s most certainly up for discussion, how prevalent and easily accessible should these things be?

Is there a limit to their ability and accessibility?

I’d kinda like to hash this out a little bit. It’s incredibly difficult playing part of a “secret society” when there are as many cameras in the city as there are people.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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shadowblizmasta
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I honestly thought the only people who could make sensory stones were in the Sensates. I've only ever had Isendis make them, with the exception of one character who had a sensate guide him in the making of a stone.
Too many to list! So here are the ones I play a lot lately.
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cryptc
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The main difference between sensory stones and video surveillance is really how incredibly easy it is to fake it, so they aren't really any better than witness statements (in many cases actually worse, since it doesn't have cross examination in it)

As an example... I could have a mage alter my memory, record that on sensory stone, then have it fixed by the mage again...

So while I see many people use them, I think their value are overrated by players
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Captain Vanguard
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Sensates offer sensory stones for purchase but they are 'expensive' to buy, were talking in the 10'thousands and higher.

Equally, I do admit I grow weary of people constantly using them with the Harmonium because the thing is, the sensates and Harmonium actually dont get on that much.

The Sensates wouldnt even bother requesting the Harmonium to deal with Sensate troubles, the sensates are a "Mafia" they would make you dissappear if there is a problem in the civic festhall.

Those smiles and faces are all in the interest of knowing every powerful planar individual in the multiverse. The Sensates are the kinda people that prepair a nice boisterous feast for everyone.

And as long as you dont cause a fuss, they wont have to kill you! *BIG SMILE*

Sensates Really are "that" ruthless behind their kindly act of generocity and serenity. Thats why the Takers aint fond of 'em, nor the Harmonium.

If anything, Hardheads should be asking Taker Diggers to go find dirt and dark on people instead of looking for Sensory Stones.

Oh, and:

Sensates aernt the only ones that can make video recordings:

Did you know Athar actually have holograms?

No?

Im surprised people never read the Factols Manifesto.

-Quietly sneaks back into the nerd corner- :ph43r:
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Reptiller
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If we're going to quote Factol's manifesto here, it's clearly in the Sensate stated that NO FILLEd STONES FUNCTION outside the Sensoriums, thank you. DMs actually should make a more clear ruling on that. :lol:
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Mr_Otyugh
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Sensory Stones are as reliable as peoples memories. Which is to say the least not very reliable. Of course in court of law witness testimonies are considered some of the highest forms of evidence, but in scientific world such are considered some of the least reliable evidences.

To give emphasis for such: Everyone likely remembers the classic game played in elementary school where all students goes to some form of line, to one of them is whispered a message that whispers it onward until you reach the end and the message is always entirely different, that's how memory works. Not very reliable and to be able to store such memory with scatter-minded images or feelings are quite biased for the one using such.

There's also of course always spells to tamper with memories, but you shouldn't take that for granted either.

Generally speaking they aren't court evidences and Civic Festhall wouldn't give them for legal matters unless it was for them to experience something new, they're not generally speaking sold either, but rather they are like private/public library property for people to experience things and for Sensate purposes they are to store their experience for others to experience them as well.

Besides does it matter if they can store memories if they already have the memory to begin with they can as easily just tell it around :P doesn't need sensory stones to do exactly same.


As for the ruling, we probably won't. They're hardly an issue.
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Darkrob
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So the chances of people being able to actually create sensory stones, or even use them for purposes other than Sensate sensations, are a lot slimmer than what we have seen?

This is good. It permits a little bit of RP flexability. It permits setups, stings, investigations, entrapments, etc to occur while still allowing the use of them should the DM's want. Witnesses are now far more important than they were.

That's a little better than a free for all :)
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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ManyFaced
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Darkrob,Jul 11 2012
06:45 PM
So the chances of people being able to actually create sensory stones, or even use them for purposes other than Sensate sensations, are a lot slimmer than what we have seen?

This is good. It permits a little bit of RP flexability. It permits setups, stings, investigations, entrapments, etc to occur while still allowing the use of them should the DM's want. Witnesses are now far more important than they were.

That's a little better than a free for all :)

The way I seem them is a witness interrogation that has all the small details preserved (as they knew them). Niennna's stones during the Hildmor trial wouldn't have mattered much unless every little drop of ink/piece of spoiled food/ and damage were still all there.

So if you're really dedicated you could use them to sell a meticulously staged crime-scene. It'd be pain, but could have some surprising results. :D
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Agony_Aunt
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There could always be black market stones.... which have a chance of consuming the users memories instead of recording them.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Silverfish
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Blood
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*Casts Tailor Memories*

*Uses sensate stone*

*Frames innocent*

:lol: !
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kitteninablender
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This actually came up in a story-line with Rith, where he considered tarnishing Oerianna Vaas' reputation for what she had said about him in S.I.G.I.S.

Basically: Oerianna carries around a sensory stone that records sound. Plan was: Steal that sensory stone and replace it with one that Rith had made. Rith changes into Oerianna, puts her voice onto a sensory stone stating all of her 'evil" plans...instigating a war in the hive with Anarchs and harmonium so that she could get the exclusive, all that jazz.

So the conversation came up: Suppose that Rith shapeshifted and recorded the image in the stone. Would True Sight allow somebody to see the Shapeshifted Rith through the recording? If Rith created an illusionary dragon and "killed" it, then recorded the event on the stone, would a true sight spell reveal the illusionary dragon to be illusionary?

There are a lot of "iffy" rules questions when dealing with a Sensory Stone. Can Detect Magic and such be used through it? Is it actually as good as say Postcognition, allowing you to experience the events as though you were actually there?

Just how accurate are they? Can spells or sensory effects function through them? How easily are they faked?

It's because of the vagueness of how they work that I chose to abandon that particuliar storyline with Rith. I myself would like some clarification on precisely what they can and cannot do. Thanks!
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Mr_Otyugh
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kitteninablender,Jul 12 2012
05:12 PM
Just how accurate are they? Can spells or sensory effects function through them? How easily are they faked?

Spells don't work through them or on them to affect the memory, they are stored memory of someones feelings, not an interactive scene. You can only re-experience something someone experienced, not create memory out of something people don't have memory of.
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DemonAbyss10
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I don't use them because of the issues of using them for RP purposes. Id rather not involve myself with using something where they can easily be meta'd in and the fact "everyone" has them irritates me further. I am with Darkrob on this one. I feel that if people want to use them they should have to buy them ingame, or bum them from a sensate ((which they would have to craft themselves.)) If bought ingame, i would prefer them to be rather expensive. That is just my view of balancing them for RP purposes. As for memory not being perfect and all, people can too easily say they have a photographic memory. That is the thing about RP, you have to have some degree of trust for the person behind the character. Maybe i am just a bit paranoid though XD
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Tomekk
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Using Sensory Stones as a tool against someone is...

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(it's also a bit gay)
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Hydra
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I do agree that such RP Items should cost something, and just the same about messenger stones and all.
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