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What's going on with SCoD?
Topic Started: Jul 27 2012, 11:53 AM (2,981 Views)
Agony_Aunt
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Get a Life
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@Tom and Rep: I was tempted to delete your sarcastic posts, but i'll leave them up so people can judge for themselves the worthiness of your own posts.

We are reaching out to players, all players, and asking them for their opinions. Please respect their willingness to speak their mind, even if you disagree or find their posts pointless.

@Vilanth: Sorry you and your friends didn't find a home here, but at least you can take some satisfaction that it was your input that finally got us to get our asses in gear and do something about the quality of documentation for the server. You can take some pride that your voice has caused a change that will help other new players to the server.


@merzikain: Regarding the mercuria berries. You're just not seeing it. When you enter, look for a ramp, not he main hill, just a thin sharp upwards ramp. Berries are on top. You can do that quest without even killing a single Paladin so even Good aligned characters can take it without worry.

@Duke and Hydra: Think both of you mentioned Faction Point system. At first i was a little horrified with the idea of allowing players to hand out faction points... but it does make sense. Ill certainly take that up for discussion, although of course we may be a little worried about allowing it. Some checks and limits would have to be in place.

@Rep/Azul/others who mentioned persistent changes: The usual problem applies. Its the work you see. Devs like to do what they like to do, and don't like doing what doesn't interest them. Since none of us are paid for our efforts, then putting up a statue or whatever to indicate something happened is very rare (practically nil). Personally i like to work on things that will bring new things to all players, not things that serve to promote the glory of individual characters. Call me wrongheaded if you like. Maybe other servers are more proactive in this respect. Doesn't mean we cant perhaps think of other ways of giving recognition though.

@Those who mentioned server wide plots: Agreed, we have been poor at this and should improve. Perhaps we should involve EMs more here.

@Those who mentioned events for groups: Most DMs/EMs tend to make their events open, specifically so people are not excluded, and this is especially important for newer players who have not got involved in things. However, since we have EMs, this is something they could definitely get active with if they want, but with a big BUT, the love needs to be spread around. Making events for the same groups is just going to lead to accusations of favouritism (even if there is none) and means other groups, perhaps rival groups, could be left out.

@Duke (i think) regarding playing evil: It can be done, it has been done, successfully, many time. However, yes, its hard. Very hard. You have to always keep in mind that players may just not want to go along with what you want to happen. People have their comfort zones, and may not be happy being the target of a crime or something. Best way to handle it, talk to the player in advance, don't give the game away, just discuss it in general what you plan. You can always ask people to roll up a new character to play victim.

Finally, just my input from the player perspective. Those who know me know i can whip out the RP when i'm in the mood, but often i'm just on for a couple hours grind in the evening when i get the chance. And i'm in agreement over the solo aspect. I used to be firmly in the camp of "you should find a party" especially as i'm one of those players who likes to create totally strange builds. However, i have noticed a power creep in some areas and this makes soloing a nightmare. Combined with not so many new characters (characters, not players) as there used to be, this makes levelling a pain.

HOWEVER....

Levelling is only peripherally related to the core issue I feel. Some of our best players have shown time and again you can generate good RP with very little (or no levels), and stand up to level 30 badasses. Unfortunately, not everyone has those strengths, so we do need to also cater to those who have good RP potential, but need their characters "complete" before they are comfortable RPing with them or standing up to the the badasses.

So basically, i'm agreeing, we should make grinding solo more viable.

One thing that can help is announcing the formation of a new group and try and get people interested. It helps with grinding and RP. It worked for a while with the Circle of Eight i started, and we got a few weeks of fun out of that. Shame it petered out, but we had some good RP in group, and caused plenty of interactions with other characters as well (the fun we had experimenting on Mara the Halfling and trying to discover what a full-ling must be then). My advice though, keep the group small and to people who keep your play times, otherwise its a pain to coordinate.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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shadowblizmasta
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Main reason I've been away lately is a lack of a motivation to interact with anyone. I've been having a really bad few weeks, and it isn't likely to get better anytime soon. I'll try to poke my head in every now and then, though.
Too many to list! So here are the ones I play a lot lately.
Barrakasra - Wraith? Bard
Kandra Blackhand - Humanish Monk of the Twin Oaks
Z'ssadra Tharress - Pureblood Green Scholar
Sskrassk - Lizardfolk Fiend Hunter
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Cadence
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@Tom and Rep: I was tempted to delete your sarcastic posts, but i'll leave them up so people can judge for themselves the worthiness of your own posts.


Pretty worthless, if you ask me.

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@Vilanth: Sorry you and your friends didn't find a home here, but at least you can take some satisfaction that it was your input that finally got us to get our asses in gear and do something about the quality of documentation for the server. You can take some pride that your voice has caused a change that will help other new players to the server.


Sometimes it just doesn't work out, but glad you got a chance to try it out. You had a bad first impression in terms of player attitude- but I assure you that most people are OOCly pleasant.

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@Duke (i think) regarding playing evil: It can be done, it has been done, successfully, many time. However, yes, its hard. Very hard. You have to always keep in mind that players may just not want to go along with what you want to happen. People have their comfort zones, and may not be happy being the target of a crime or something. Best way to handle it, talk to the player in advance, don't give the game away, just discuss it in general what you plan. You can always ask people to roll up a new character to play victim.


Agreed that it can be hard, particularly when people think in terms of win and lose. I guess it can never be reiterated enough that RP is for everyone to have fun, and when one tries to transcend the viewpoint of their PC and focus on the stories or the plots, there is more fun to be had (whoa, this sounds like some weird Zen stuff). Some of the most fun I had in RP was when I was on the losing side of the situation with another PC. It barely even mattered to me that my character got the very short end of the stick because the story was so cool. (Obviously, I'm no Zen master, and I do get attached to my characters very often, but I'm just giving an example of when I didn't, and had a lot of fun). I like villains as much as anyone, but it's hard to play when people are attached to their characters and don't want to "lose."

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Levelling is only peripherally related to the core issue I feel. Some of our best players have shown time and again you can generate good RP with very little (or no levels), and stand up to level 30 badasses. Unfortunately, not everyone has those strengths, so we do need to also cater to those who have good RP potential, but need their characters "complete" before they are comfortable RPing with them or standing up to the the badasses.


Ya, I've been guilty of only wanting to play my character once s/he is epic level so that s/he can stand up to all the other epics in Sigil when the going gets rough. It feels as if sometimes that's the only way to have a good villain/antagonist. Because of all the epics in Sigil, no one will take a level 4 rogue seriously.

Enough meandering from me :P
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Reptiller
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Quote:
 
@Rep/Azul/others who mentioned persistent changes: The usual problem applies. Its the work you see. Devs like to do what they like to do, and don't like doing what doesn't interest them. Since none of us are paid for our efforts, then putting up a statue or whatever to indicate something happened is very rare (practically nil). Personally i like to work on things that will bring new things to all players, not things that serve to promote the glory of individual characters. Call me wrongheaded if you like. Maybe other servers are more proactive in this respect. Doesn't mean we cant perhaps think of other ways of giving recognition though.


I would actually propose that people make the neccessary change in toolset themselves. Yes, I there are also many other ways of recognition of transpired events like well, IG books. So yes, what I think is that players should be allowed to do persistent changes if either a builder is available OR they can change the area on their own if they have a working toolset. Or have their cat do it.

PS: As for our posts, thank you for leaving them. :)

-Rep
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laozhe
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Honestly, the reason I haven't logged in for days is because of a strange and omnipresent misanthropy in PCs.

Now, this is Sigil, I don't expect cut and dried Goods or Evils. Its SUPPOSED to be a dubious place by nature, so on.

But a lot of people seem to think a good character is a jerk. Or an antagonistic one.

I'm not saying conflict is bad, or that your character can't be flawed in some major way. Thing is, most of the time that misanthropy is the entirety of the character. If theirs anything beyond a disregard for others, it'd take far too much digging.

I've known "jerk" characters on other servers. Heck, on one my main PC married one and made another his adoptive sister. Why? Because their was more to them than those negative drawbacks. And because of that, I was able to stand a conversation with them that lasted more than five minutes.
Broven Veridian AKA GREENCLOAK - Swordsman, hidden agenda.

Nikulai Masters AKA THE MASTER - Never will my knee bend or my hand enslave.

Null - Heeeeey~

Sibuna Goodshield - Ehns Lives.
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DemonAbyss10
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Cadence,Jul 27 2012
04:49 PM

Quote:
 

@Duke (i think) regarding playing evil: It can be done, it has been done, successfully, many time. However, yes, its hard. Very hard. You have to always keep in mind that players may just not want to go along with what you want to happen. People have their comfort zones, and may not be happy being the target of a crime or something. Best way to handle it, talk to the player in advance, don't give the game away, just discuss it in general what you plan. You can always ask people to roll up a new character to play victim.


Agreed that it can be hard, particularly when people think in terms of win and lose. I guess it can never be reiterated enough that RP is for everyone to have fun, and when one tries to transcend the viewpoint of their PC and focus on the stories or the plots, there is more fun to be had (whoa, this sounds like some weird Zen stuff). Some of the most fun I had in RP was when I was on the losing side of the situation with another PC. It barely even mattered to me that my character got the very short end of the stick because the story was so cool. (Obviously, I'm no Zen master, and I do get attached to my characters very often, but I'm just giving an example of when I didn't, and had a lot of fun). I like villains as much as anyone, but it's hard to play when people are attached to their characters and don't want to "lose."

Quote:
 

Levelling is only peripherally related to the core issue I feel. Some of our best players have shown time and again you can generate good RP with very little (or no levels), and stand up to level 30 badasses. Unfortunately, not everyone has those strengths, so we do need to also cater to those who have good RP potential, but need their characters "complete" before they are comfortable RPing with them or standing up to the the badasses.


Ya, I've been guilty of only wanting to play my character once s/he is epic level so that s/he can stand up to all the other epics in Sigil when the going gets rough. It feels as if sometimes that's the only way to have a good villain/antagonist. Because of all the epics in Sigil, no one will take a level 4 rogue seriously.

Enough meandering from me :P

Can definitely agree with these. When I play 'evil' though it tends to be a completely different sort, and I tend to 'blur' alignments for flavor as well. An Example would be Zaed with the who N plotline I was trying to kickstart ((which ultimately only had Oerianna's player participate in due to players completely ignoring any sort of affects things could have.)) He is a Lawful neutral-neutral type of character. He will often drift into neutral at times if he has to. He is more good-leaning than evil though. I usually reserve him for events or if people cant find a smithy nowadays.

Daevos can be an evil prick, yet can be VERY personable. He is a taker and such, but it doesnt mean he has to make enemies. He will help, but he requires "compensation" and in the way of evil... that side would be much more apparent if he wasn't drunk constantly, or if he is dead-set serious about something.

I guess the way I RP happens due to how my PnP group operates. We use a homebrew ruleset based on 2nd/3.5 edition. We don't use alignments because they are ultimately defined as no matter what side you are on, you would view the other as evil. Much more 'realistic' that way IMO. Due to that I do tend to RP a lot of my characters as falling into the grey area.

I think in the end with RPing an evil character, players need to get more creative than Killers, Thieves and and the usual tropes that are used.
Characters
-Moriarcis: Lvl 20 Necromancer
-Ordethus: Lvl 20 (21) Telepath Warlock/Alienist
-Orionis: Lvl 8 Dirge of Tiamat
-Zaed Nahalis: Lvl 28 Hextorite Blademaster
-Skor Addamar: Lvl 22 Ex-Collector
-Ven: Lvl 9 (10) Old School Assassin
-Vai'aian: Lvl 18 (20) Zerth Monk

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Reptiller
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Pretty worthless, if you ask me.


No, no, no! We were being VERY SRS about our posts! Just like Mr. Real was being serious in saying that people shouldn't complain about server's problems or try to define what -exactly- they are in a thread made for that purpose! ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll::
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Juunro
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Just reinforcing: The Scarn Squad isn't going anywhere. :yeaaah:

I've just been playing the wide range of terribly inexpensive games I got through the Steam Sale. Heck, I spent 3 or more hours on tonight with Arman sitting around in the market selling things to people and chatting up an Eryines.
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Vilanth Thistlewind
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Aparently I did not write my post correctly. I was meaning that one of our members is no longer playing on the server but the rest of us are.. so Not All of our group is playing anymore.. Is what I meant.. I am not leaving as this is the ONLY game I can play due to my visual issues currently and though I may miss text in the massive flood in crowded areas I'm still doing my best to participate.
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Neelis
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Oh steam summer sale...you burned a hole in my wallet...pocket...and floor.

As for the issues we suffered. One of us has decided no longer to play...I myself when I find myself getting annoyed with it step away from the server and come back when I'm in the mood to play. I don't blame anyone for being who they are IC or OOC...but it does infact get dull sometimes. That comes with the nature of the game, You achieve high level...you can go grind money (Which i find dull) or roleplay...roleplay isn't always there...so.

I have been running little Events between some characters from our setting that I brought here to just liven things up...and people seem to enjoy it. I'm not an EM no...but when you see 6+ people staring at eachother and not saying anything...you need to do something...give something for them to focus on.


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Peregrina Tuk
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Hi all,

I'm totally new to SCoD (I've been online only 4 times so far), but couldn't help but spot this thread here.

As a new player, I feel quite welcome, people were very nice to me so far and there haven't been any problems until now. To the contrary, I had some nice ooc chats with some older players, and in general players and characters were both very helpful.

I had to smile when I read Mr. O's initial post, because I come from a German PW where I'm DM myself and we face the exact problems there as well.

When players become lethargic, very often the DMs become so too. Or the other way round. It's a bit of a vicious circle, and hard to break out of it.
I guess, as a general rule, players want something that entertains them when they're online. More often than not, players see this as a task the DMs have to manage. Of course, they are correct, but being a DM is a fairly time-consumming task, and too much pressure, or as Mr. O stated, too little interest in quests, can ruin the fun for a DM. Sometimes permanently. Not having anything to do ruins the fun for players, and again - here comes the vicious circle again.

I don't have a great solution ready for these problems, but maybe the world of SCod is too static, and no permanent, life-changing changes occur there, no giant plotlines; maybe there are no great, fateful choices characters have to make...you get the idea. This is just an assumption, and if I'm totally mistaken I apologize dearly!

But from my experience, players want something that changes their characters, unique moments that lead the characters down another path, or let them decide to forge another destiny for them, abandon their old ways... maybe there should be more quests with random groups. On the PW I come from, DMs often used to go to the local watering holes, pick whomever stood there up and lead them to mini quests, or even trying to involve them in big plotlines that the DMs then developed in the course of sometimes literally months.
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drfelly
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Sareth675,Jul 27 2012
09:08 PM
Or from the person playing a character who's a bit of a prick, it can help just sending a tell saying it's just the character, don't take it seriously. Unfortunate as it is, people can take RP seriously enough as to see this sort of interaction as a personal attack, and it's hard to tell when that is the case. Communication from everybody, new, middle or old players, can go a long way.


I agree with this. Whenever one of my characters is behaving like a jerk, I feel compelled to send the person a tell. Usually I apologize and explain it's just my char who's a jerk but I'm not (even if they don't get offended I feel like I should apologize anyway cause I feel bad being mean). Also, I have misinterpreted rp rudeness as ooc rudeness before too. It really does help when the person sends you that tell saying "hey, sorry for being mean to you but my character is kind of a jerk." It alleviates some of that irritation you feel after being on the receiving end of rudeness.
Liliara the Songbird Bardess and Enchantress, Runs business with a man she calls the Falcon (Martin Wallen)
Mai'ae Colleague and former slave of Daudhir
Glitterstar Former Enchantress, current protector of Karasuthra, close friend of An'aroluth
Amara Nymph and Wife of Aurixkonari
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drfelly
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Agony_Aunt,Jul 27 2012
09:18 PM
@Duke (i think) regarding playing evil: It can be done, it has been done, successfully, many time. However, yes, its hard. Very hard. You have to always keep in mind that players may just not want to go along with what you want to happen. People have their comfort zones, and may not be happy being the target of a crime or something. Best way to handle it, talk to the player in advance, don't give the game away, just discuss it in general what you plan. You can always ask people to roll up a new character to play victim.

As much as I am embarrassed to admit it, I love rping the victim. If you ever need someone to rp a vicitim, hit me up. I'm usually playing under the usernames drfelly or BipolarPrincess. Depending on what type of victim you need I'm willing sometimes to let it happen to my mains but other types I'd be more than willing to role up a new char and be your victim.
Liliara the Songbird Bardess and Enchantress, Runs business with a man she calls the Falcon (Martin Wallen)
Mai'ae Colleague and former slave of Daudhir
Glitterstar Former Enchantress, current protector of Karasuthra, close friend of An'aroluth
Amara Nymph and Wife of Aurixkonari
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Kree
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Ho hum. It's that time of year again, isn't it?
People despair far too easily and piss all over each other's ideas in the subsequent infighting. Pointing fingers, I don't believe posting derogatory memes will add to the constructive discussion. Look, the server is NOT falling apart and new people feel pretty welcome. Much fun is to be had and I believe much of the complaining comes from old guard with nothing left to do.

The server and its setting continues to inspire me and I'm constantly motivated to seek out RP and act on new character ideas. I don't need castles (or the Serpent's Gaze) hammered together by a builder in my name to be happy, I just want creative players up and about, ready to engage in our interactive storytelling/improvised theatre.

If you feel that all you can do is stand around Khazeet's and banter, reinvent something. Have something happen to your character on a personal level that motivates them to new heights. There's more to this than getting drunk, insulting your rival and going off to shoot demons for a few hours.

I'm not telling people to simply lower their standards and be happy with what they have, just to act on a bit of creativity. That empowering force that drives us to act out our ideas in these self made personas. Character X has nothing to do? He's staring down the barrel of a life of growing apathy and alcoholism? He's a hero, damn it! Be stronger than your boredom and make things happen.

I've found myself playing for 10 hours straight several times over the years without the assistance of DM's, EM's or whatever might randomly inject story into my character's life. Summer's about and people do other things for a bit. Player count drops, okay? Those that return will return. If boredom kicks in, fight that bastard with all your might and be a RPer!

Much, much, much can be done by the playerbase itself and succumbing to despair and apathy will only project and infect others with it. Let your big hero go on a vacation and bring a quivering, lost clueless to town for a change?
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Reptiller
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Kree,Jul 28 2012
08:03 PM
Ho hum. It's that time of year again, isn't it?
People despair far too easily and piss all over each other's ideas in the subsequent infighting. Pointing fingers, I don't believe posting derogatory memes will add to the constructive discussion. Look, the server is NOT falling apart and new people feel pretty welcome. Much fun is to be had and I believe much of the complaining comes from old guard with nothing left to do.

The server and its setting continues to inspire me and I'm constantly motivated to seek out RP and act on new character ideas. I don't need castles (or the Serpent's Gaze) hammered together by a builder in my name to be happy, I just want creative players up and about, ready to engage in our interactive storytelling/improvised theatre.

If you feel that all you can do is stand around Khazeet's and banter, reinvent something. Have something happen to your character on a personal level that motivates them to new heights. There's more to this than getting drunk, insulting your rival and going off to shoot demons for a few hours.

I'm not telling people to simply lower their standards and be happy with what they have, just to act on a bit of creativity. That empowering force that drives us to act out our ideas in these self made personas. Character X has nothing to do? He's staring down the barrel of a life of growing apathy and alcoholism? He's a hero, damn it! Be stronger than your boredom and make things happen.

I've found myself playing for 10 hours straight several times over the years without the assistance of DM's, EM's or whatever might randomly inject story into my character's life. Summer's about and people do other things for a bit. Player count drops, okay? Those that return will return. If boredom kicks in, fight that bastard with all your might and be a RPer!

Much, much, much can be done by the playerbase itself and succumbing to despair and apathy will only project and infect others with it. Let your big hero go on a vacation and bring a quivering, lost clueless to town for a change?

*Insert a derogatory meme here, proving Reptiller the absolute depressive jerk he is.*

Now, seriously.

This is not so much about the summer time, the situation has been going downwards from early spring(ofcourse, that is my opinion).

While I agree that players should liven things up on their own(I generally find the suggestion very constructive), I don't think you believe that a global plotline or ability to affect the gameworld would help greatly. Personal plots are good but...to be honest, most of them are either resolved with friends or said plots get marked as dramaqueening(sometimes rightfully so). I've seen that happen a lot to people who try to involve a wider array of players in their personal plots.

Once again, player base getting out of comfort zones and being more creative than normal is always good but after...tenth clueless brought to The City of Doors one might notice that actually nothing besodes those personal plots, as engaging as they can get, happens within said City. Oftentimes it seems that nothing ever happened at all, considering how all big plotlines we have had are now forgotten and left no mark or change in the gameworld whatsoever. Static gameworld is not a good thing and...honestly, player creativity is a short term fix for that.

"Are there any big plots going on and how could one get involved?" - Lately I get this question a lot by new people and oftentimes I am tempted to lie.

-Rep
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