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What's going on with SCoD?
Topic Started: Jul 27 2012, 11:53 AM (2,980 Views)
DemonAbyss10
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Reptiller,Jul 28 2012
12:34 PM
Kree,Jul 28 2012
08:03 PM
Ho hum. It's that time of year again, isn't it?
People despair far too easily and piss all over each other's ideas in the subsequent infighting. Pointing fingers, I don't believe posting derogatory memes will add to the constructive discussion. Look, the server is NOT falling apart and new people feel pretty welcome. Much fun is to be had and I believe much of the complaining comes from old guard with nothing left to do.

The server and its setting continues to inspire me and I'm constantly motivated to seek out RP and act on new character ideas. I don't need castles (or the Serpent's Gaze) hammered together by a builder in my name to be happy, I just want creative players up and about, ready to engage in our interactive storytelling/improvised theatre.

If you feel that all you can do is stand around Khazeet's and banter, reinvent something. Have something happen to your character on a personal level that motivates them to new heights. There's more to this than getting drunk, insulting your rival and going off to shoot demons for a few hours.

I'm not telling people to simply lower their standards and be happy with what they have, just to act on a bit of creativity. That empowering force that drives us to act out our ideas in these self made personas. Character X has nothing to do? He's staring down the barrel of a life of growing apathy and alcoholism? He's a hero, damn it! Be stronger than your boredom and make things happen.

I've found myself playing for 10 hours straight several times over the years without the assistance of DM's, EM's or whatever might randomly inject story into my character's life. Summer's about and people do other things for a bit. Player count drops, okay? Those that return will return. If boredom kicks in, fight that bastard with all your might and be a RPer!

Much, much, much can be done by the playerbase itself and succumbing to despair and apathy will only project and infect others with it. Let your big hero go on a vacation and bring a quivering, lost clueless to town for a change?

*Insert a derogatory meme here, proving Reptiller the absolute depressive jerk he is.*

Now, seriously.

This is not so much about the summer time, the situation has been going downwards from early spring(ofcourse, that is my opinion).

While I agree that players should liven things up on their own(I generally find the suggestion very constructive), I don't think you believe that a global plotline or ability to affect the gameworld would help greatly. Personal plots are good but...to be honest, most of them are either resolved with friends or said plots get marked as dramaqueening(sometimes rightfully so). I've seen that happen a lot to people who try to involve a wider array of players in their personal plots.

Once again, player base getting out of comfort zones and being more creative than normal is always good but after...tenth clueless brought to The City of Doors one might notice that actually nothing besodes those personal plots, as engaging as they can get, happens within said City. Oftentimes it seems that nothing ever happened at all, considering how all big plotlines we have had are now forgotten and left no mark or change in the gameworld whatsoever. Static gameworld is not a good thing and...honestly, player creativity is a short term fix for that.

"Are there any big plots going on and how could one get involved?" - Lately I get this question a lot by new people and oftentimes I am tempted to lie.

-Rep

Well when I get back, and if people are up to it, I love to get a Far-realm plotline going if anyone feels like EMing/DMing it. The main character of mine that would get involved though would be ordethus since he is the eldritch-psion who specialized in Planar lore, especially relating to the Astral Plane/Dream Realm/Far Realm.
Characters
-Moriarcis: Lvl 20 Necromancer
-Ordethus: Lvl 20 (21) Telepath Warlock/Alienist
-Orionis: Lvl 8 Dirge of Tiamat
-Zaed Nahalis: Lvl 28 Hextorite Blademaster
-Skor Addamar: Lvl 22 Ex-Collector
-Ven: Lvl 9 (10) Old School Assassin
-Vai'aian: Lvl 18 (20) Zerth Monk

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Mabus
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Maybe the Great Bazaar could see a bit of a change in itself. If everyone's busy mulling about Khazeet's, maybe Khazeet shoiuld pack up and go bye bye. People will find other places to hang around. And I don't see why the Bazaar should be more interesting to hang around in over the other wards. Sigil is a ring, and it seems like the city revolves around the Great Bazaar. I still think that some of the planes could use extensions... (Though as far as PWs go, I still think SCoD is a remarkable PW even as is, though people're always going to be able to point out ways it could be better, no matter how well done it is)

Though I do realize that this requires more "building". If I were good at building areas, scripting, etc. I'd be building new areas for SCoD like crazy! I can make up physical areas, though I can't script at all, make quests, custom build NPCs, nor any of the other stuff outside of simply making areas. If I could build areas, and others could handle the job of populating them, adding quests, scripts, traps, etc. I'd be willing to give my part a go.

As for <<sugar cookie>> players, I've never run into any myself, either. I love SCoD. And even though I do take extended breaks every so often, it's not because of SCoD, but just that I need to take a break from NWN2 altogether. I was also heavily in to EQ2, of which I have recently dropped, because I can't afford the payments (got bored there, also). And NWN2 is free, always available, and there is more going on here than any other games.
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"In the end all things betray you. Honor. Ideals. Heroism. Allies. Comrades. Lovers. Your eyes. Your limbs. Your heart. And in the end, you betray yourself. And that is the greatest betrayal of all."

~Lament of the Cambion Zaxarus, hero of the Blood War.
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Cadence
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Mabus,Jul 28 2012
02:34 PM


Though I do realize that this requires more "building". If I were good at building areas, scripting, etc. I'd be building new areas for SCoD like crazy! I can make up physical areas, though I can't script at all, make quests, custom build NPCs, nor any of the other stuff outside of simply making areas. If I could build areas, and others could handle the job of populating them, adding quests, scripts, traps, etc. I'd be willing to give my part a go.

I don't think building new areas or adding new races/items/or goodies otherwise would really address the issue of player motivation (at least not long term), but I do think it's nice to have more content, and I, too would build avidly if I was good at/ had any idea how to build areas (starting with Harbinger House!).


There are some good tutorial videos on youtube you may wish to check out.

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Maybe the Great Bazaar could see a bit of a change in itself. If everyone's busy mulling about Khazeet's, maybe Khazeet shoiuld pack up and go bye bye


I've thought about this very thing too. Again, I'm not sure if this will have a huge impact- In the absence of Khazeet's bar, I think there will be another place which will become a campfire RP hub, except it will be less convenient to get to.
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DemonAbyss10
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Cadence,Jul 28 2012
10:34 PM
Mabus,Jul 28 2012
02:34 PM


Though I do realize that this requires more "building". If I were good at building areas, scripting, etc. I'd be building new areas for SCoD like crazy! I can make up physical areas, though I can't script at all, make quests, custom build NPCs, nor any of the other stuff outside of simply making areas. If I could build areas, and others could handle the job of populating them, adding quests, scripts, traps, etc. I'd be willing to give my part a go.

I don't think building new areas or adding new races/items/or goodies otherwise would really address the issue of player motivation (at least not long term), but I do think it's nice to have more content, and I, too would build avidly if I was good at/ had any idea how to build areas (starting with Harbinger House!).


There are some good tutorial videos on youtube you may wish to check out.

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Maybe the Great Bazaar could see a bit of a change in itself. If everyone's busy mulling about Khazeet's, maybe Khazeet shoiuld pack up and go bye bye


I've thought about this very thing too. Again, I'm not sure if this will have a huge impact- In the absence of Khazeet's bar, I think there will be another place which will become a campfire RP hub, except it will be less convenient to get to.

or you do what either Krandate or Ozzymandias suggested a while ago and implement a home point of sorts. A location that is basically your spawn point. Would help RP some IMO in the way of creating opportunities on the way to a hub. There was a similar issue on a MUD I played years back (and still play every now and then). Basically got fixed in a similar manner, which then just evolved into a global RP channel, which is much easier to work with in the constraints of a MUD. At its peak we were seeing a few hundred players (maybe 6 years ago?) but its down to a few dozen now.
Characters
-Moriarcis: Lvl 20 Necromancer
-Ordethus: Lvl 20 (21) Telepath Warlock/Alienist
-Orionis: Lvl 8 Dirge of Tiamat
-Zaed Nahalis: Lvl 28 Hextorite Blademaster
-Skor Addamar: Lvl 22 Ex-Collector
-Ven: Lvl 9 (10) Old School Assassin
-Vai'aian: Lvl 18 (20) Zerth Monk

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Silverfish
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DemonAbyss10,Jul 28 2012
06:29 PM
Well when I get back, and if people are up to it, I love to get a Far-realm plotline going if anyone feels like EMing/DMing it. The main character of mine that would get involved though would be ordethus since he is the eldritch-psion who specialized in Planar lore, especially relating to the Astral Plane/Dream Realm/Far Realm.

Yea, yea, me too :3 Far Realm is awesome.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Alright, I'm back and I see the rage has been minimal and thread remains unlocked so that's already a win for me ;)

I read/skimmed just about each subsequent reply and one thing I wish to address is that server indeed isn't falling apart or none of that, but as I mentioned in DM boards earlier (which most of you obviously couldn't see) that stagnation has lasted quite a while, pre-summer period from some parts, I do think part of this is mere annual "low time" as well, but there's also underlying issue definitely. The issue is not so much the people leaving part since some players always return, but the issue is if they will even wish to return if there's only little that keeps people immersed and inspired within.

And to Peregrina Tuk special mentioning that I agree, it's a tough one to solve, my plan was demotivation and reverse psychology, make people think it's more falling down and get those whom enjoy the place to challenge some of the negativity that I put forth (Granted minor alterations to less demotivating since some complained to me that it was too depressing sounding when I first reviewed it by "test group" =P) and hopefully be more motivated or open peoples eyes and finally simply admit the open secret that many have probably wanted to say but fear that someone may speak against such and thus reputation get ruined for needless drama, I entirely expected people to think less of me even but figured it had to be said so if that was the price, sure.

Also no, I didn't leave for that reason :P this was pre-schedualed journey but I partially aligned with the post so that if things went the wrong way I'd be blissfully unaware and enjoy my roadtrip rather than worry of some menial argument over the interwebs.


Lack of events for us was mostly also the opening point of EM's, at one point there was a surge of new EMs coming up and then things slowed down greatly which I believe is at least partially related. I had tried quite a few things that may or may not have gone unseen due to me playing multiple secret accounts, but often faced the issues of many people not becoming interested, now I know if people knew it was me, they'd be my best buddies... but that's not the kind of server I want, I don't believe status should equal to how friendly and respectfully someone is treated. Well the break did good and I'm gonna try something new of course, hopefully others also try more and not only talk or we'll end up like politicians ;D

*edit* Oh and Gildren; I always play multiple games ;) I mentioned in the original post already that loyalty slash forcing oneself to play is no good for oneself and in longterm neither to those around and I live by the same words.
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Darkrob
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When this thread started I was going to post my semi annual gripe about Canon. Then I decided "nah... why bother? It won't change a thing no matter what you post" and I left it at that. Then it crept up once again in a recent thread. The question that always brings a tear to my eye...

Is it Canon?

This is the thing that bothers me the most about this server. The absolute stubborn unwillingness to step outside of the Canon box and think for yourselves. It's like the town council who bars the little 6 year old girl from playing soccer because there's only boys teams and the book states that only boys can play on the teams.

"My god Bill! We can't make an exception and allow this little girl to play soccer with the other kids! It goes against the book! You know we can't go against the book! That... that would be thinking for ourselves! My God Bill! Just imagine! If we made an exception pretty soon every child would be allowed to play on the soccer teams! Think of the Anarchy! Think of the rule book! Our precious, precious rulebook! We'd have to *gasp* think for ourselves! No, Bill! I'll not do it. Damn common sence all to hell! We'll not violate the sanctity of the rulebook! She must be omitted from play! We have no other choice. It's too risky to go against the book. People might think we can lead... and not just read."

You get my point. It stagnates everything. I was going to start a long event line to kill the factol of the Mercykillers. It was going to involve lots of people and such. I was told that "Yes... you can try but you risk permadeath should you get caught... but if you succeed? Well... it'll only be temporary. Even if you manage to destroy her soul... they'll bring her back 'cause you know... it's Canon and we can't mess with that."

Bull

Why risk my character with Permadeath, and the characters of all those who would try it with me, if "screw their success... Canon wins! Bring her back! Wipe the board clean, kill their characters, and go on like nothing happened."

It's the main reason I avoid any and all events at all costs. Just not worth the effort.

Nothing kills a world more than stagnation and an unwillingness to change or take a chance. The greatest thing Gary Gygax ever gave us was the ability to use the rules to "our" benefit. To use them as we saw fit, change them as we needed... to make our game worlds the best they could be based on our imaginations. Absolute adherence to Canon merely wastes that gift. He never meant the rule books to be the final "Bible" to kneel before. There were merely DM aids to help mould their worlds.

It seems that has been forgotton over time.

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Reptiller
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Darkrob,Jul 30 2012
12:13 AM
When this thread started I was going to post my semi annual gripe about Canon. Then I decided "nah... why bother? It won't change a thing no matter what you post" and I left it at that. Then it crept up once again in a recent thread. The question that always brings a tear to my eye...

Is it Canon?

This is the thing that bothers me the most about this server. The absolute stubborn unwillingness to step outside of the Canon box and think for yourselves. It's like the town council who bars the little 6 year old girl from playing soccer because there's only boys teams and the book states that only boys can play on the teams.

"My god Bill! We can't make an exception and allow this little girl to play soccer with the other kids! It goes against the book! You know we can't go against the book! That... that would be thinking for ourselves! My God Bill! Just imagine! If we made an exception pretty soon every child would be allowed to play on the soccer teams! Think of the Anarchy! Think of the rule book! Our precious, precious rulebook! We'd have to *gasp* think for ourselves! No, Bill! I'll not do it. Damn common sence all to hell! We'll not violate the sanctity of the rulebook! She must be omitted from play! We have no other choice. It's too risky to go against the book. People might think we can lead... and not just read."

You get my point. It stagnates everything. I was going to start a long event line to kill the factol of the Mercykillers. It was going to involve lots of people and such. I was told that "Yes... you can try but you risk permadeath should you get caught... but if you succeed? Well... it'll only be temporary. Even if you manage to destroy her soul... they'll bring her back 'cause you know... it's Canon and we can't mess with that."

Bull

Why risk my character with Permadeath, and the characters of all those who would try it with me, if "screw their success... Canon wins! Bring her back! Wipe the board clean, kill their characters, and go on like nothing happened."

It's the main reason I avoid any and all events at all costs. Just not worth the effort.

Nothing kills a world more than stagnation and an unwillingness to change or take a chance. The greatest thing Gary Gygax ever gave us was the ability to use the rules to "our" benefit. To use them as we saw fit, change them as we needed... to make our game worlds the best they could be based on our imaginations. Absolute adherence to Canon merely wastes that gift. He never meant the rule books to be the final "Bible" to kneel before. There were merely DM aids to help mould their worlds.

It seems that has been forgotton over time.

Quoted for truth.
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laozhe
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Thirded for truth. A previous server, Abyssya, is now dead because its management maintained the server for the sake of the "vision" they laid down, not the enjoyment of the players.

I've -seen- adherence to a ficticious coda screw over everyone. And they were ultimately so control freaky about it, they didn't let anyone else contribute. So when a DM or so on left, the vacuum went unfilled.And when we said something with the server, say, how leveling was handled early on was not fun?
Oh, they couldn't change it. It'd go against their precious vision.
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@DarkRob: Beyond not making much sense to kill a Factol off, the actual effect on the setting would be minimal for a majority of players. If someone isn't a mercy killer, they won't really feel it and the stagnation will continue. The only purpose of something like that would be for the people who actually killed the Factol to get a kick out of it. Then the Factol would be swiftly replaced with an original character who has less lore and personality than the previous entity.

Even the most permissive NWN2 servers rarely allow the characters to entertain the thought of killing gods, Factols are basically that. There are better options that could cause more long lasting change.

@Laozhe: Mechanical features have been tweaked in the past as needed. There are also some choices out their for PCs, though not as much as I would like there to be. There are just some things that are off the table to keep the server making sense.
"Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step."
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Er_Nano_Infame
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indeed if we consider all things soon or later end, then why not making persistant changes in scod's world 'till we can? or no?
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Er_Nano_Infame
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ManyFaced,Jul 30 2012
01:53 AM
@DarkRob: Beyond not making much sense to kill a Factol off, the actual effect on the setting would be minimal for a majority of players. If someone isn't a mercy killer, they won't really feel it and the stagnation will continue. The only purpose of something like that would be for the people who actually killed the Factol to get a kick out of it. Then the Factol would be swiftly replaced with an original character who has less lore and personality than the previous entity.


the death of a factol might bring great unstability and consiquences to the power relations between factions and factions themselves? the mess in the hive was a similar example, maybe? though of course is hard to follow and all need events and directions.
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Juunro
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The Factols are not gods; not even close. They are quite killable and are statted to be such in the Factols Manifesto. Most of them aren't even that crazy-badass; you don't get to be the head of a faction through physical combat ability, you get there through purity of philosophy and political acumen. The physical act of killing a Factol is in itself quite easy; the problem is getting there through the veritable army of guards, magical defenses, and other things, then surviving the wrath of that entire faction coming down on you. In the end, it's unlikely any PC would be named the head of the faction just because someone offs, say, Duke Darkwood. PC's are nobodies in the political spectrum of the city; maybe with decades of work or through planar providence, if they are very, very lucky and very, very good at playing faction politics. Just being a level 30 hard-ass doesn't really mean all that much to anyone of importance in Sigil.

Me? I'd prefer to not see the Faction War happen, mostly because I thought it was a derpy story and broke the canon in some stupid ways.

But no, Canon isn't something that is easily broken in Planescape; the setting is, well, infinite. 90% of the city of Sigil is left unmapped and even then is mutable, with only a few very important rules that are fairly easy to abide by, all of which involve not irritating the Lady.

I suppose what's irritated me, in this regard, is the occasional player (there's been one or two, I won't name names) that have jumped on me or someone else for supposedly doing something impossible, while not actually having a good understanding of the city. For example: Someone yelled at Neelis for summoning something, citing that Summon spells don't work within the city. Which is false; they do work perfectly fine within the city, but they can only target things already there. You throw a summon monster IV, it will swipe a Dire Aoskan Hound from a pack in the Hive. Something that summons a Planar Ally? That Baatezu in the pub over in the Lower Ward is going to be awfully irritated (or not; maybe it'll be the barkeep who's now got a seventy gold tab with nobody to pay it) when he suddenly arrives. Of course, a smart mage will set up a menagerie in their own little home with creatures tagged for his summoning spells.
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Ceremorph
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the death of a factol might bring great unstability and consiquences to the power relations between factions and factions themselves? the mess in the hive was a similar example, maybe? though of course is hard to follow and all need events and directions.

And in all seriousness, that's the main reason why the DM team is reluctant to have this sort of change happen. It's all well and good to say "Oh, you killed Alisohn, now Arwyl Swan's Son is the Factol"... but the overall change in faction direction, not to mention its effect upon the other factions (how would Darkwood react? Would Arwyl and Sarin of the Harmonium be natural allies as paladins, or bitter rivals for the different gods and pantheons they serve? How would the Blackguard and Anarchists respond to two powerful factions now slanting towards LG leadership? Would Alisohn's sect within the faction attempt a takeover?) These are all important story points, that would require someone to determine the lore of for the server, probably even more than if someone were to kill Demogorgon or St. Cuthbert.

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I suppose what's irritated me, in this regard, is the occasional player (there's been one or two, I won't name names) that have jumped on me or someone else for supposedly doing something impossible, while not actually having a good understanding of the city.

Nobody should jump on anybody else about issues of canon or lore. Speaking to them privately and finding out exactly what they were thinking, perhaps, although I think it would have been funny (and rather embarassing for the "jumpers") if....

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Of course, a smart mage will set up a menagerie in their own little home with creatures tagged for his summoning spells.

Exactly. With my own character, the demonologist Rhethys, I made a very important part of her early development on this server her trips to other planes to transport her "menagerie" to Sigil for just this purpose.
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We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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Reptiller
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Weeell, badasses or not, server level is considered 1/2. So a level 30 is a level 15 in regards to canon characters. That leaves us...with a few Factols a level 30 PC could easily kill IF they get past the defenses and Alisohn is actually one of them. She's a level 9 wizard by Factol's Manifesto. Lets take Rowan for example...A level 20 dual Ranger/Cleric. This is a job for a whole party of level 15...However, how do you get an armed party close to Rowan? That's a good question. Sneaking/infiltrating as one person is far easier then organizing a hit of 4 PCs...

In other words, some Factols are easier targets than others. Easiest so far is the Factol of Bleakers...But who the hell would want that guy dead anyway? >.>

Hardest is Skall. Get inside a keep full of undead, which is located on the Negative Energy Plane, find his philactery and destroy it, kill the absolutely overpowered lich, then capture his soul so that he's not ressurected. It would be a suicide mission.

Now, regarding Factions in general, these are mostly suggestions:

1)Factions which desperately require NPC representation in-game: Athar, Transcendent Order, Revolutionary League(gang of open supporters or something in the Hive). To my knowledge, there's not a single Athar or Cipher NPC in game at all.

2)Faction-related quests which would spark interest towards factions in new people. Those quests don't really need to be complex at all but the dialog must be good.

3)Faction balance. Nobody really cares about any Factions besides Triad of Law while actually they're not as prominent...Well, lets take Harmonium for example. There are 20,000 of them in the City, 10,000 always inside the keep...Now, Sigil houses ~250,000 at a given time, according to Manual of the Planes. That means Harmonium patrols are...less than 5% of Sigil's populace if we count planeswalkers, travelling merchants, etc. There are many, many ways to rebalance the Factions on the server but most of them go along the lines of giving Factions more IG territory, which in turn means making Faction NPCs. Right now, Harmonium has more NPCs than all other Factions put together which...a bit wrong.
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