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What's going on with SCoD?
Topic Started: Jul 27 2012, 11:53 AM (2,976 Views)
Ceremorph
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
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Faction NPCs added to faction HQs giving out random quests (even little things) that are given only to members of that faction would be awesome. Maybe they can detect the PC's level range and dish out a quest accordingly that may have them doing a simple errand in the city or running through the Abyss, or some other plane that NEEDS PC company. Rewards could be XP. items useful to that PC's lvl, and faction points.

Jump in the toolset and start making quests then!!!

In all seriousness, quests are possibly the single most time-intensive thing so far as "bang for your buck" goes, at least in my experience. The "All around the Hive" quest was my own single contribution to Sigil's quests, and took quite a bit of effort to create... and let's face it, it's only the first time you do a quest that you appreciate it. Sure, we could fill the server with basic "fetch this from Mniitvak" and "What has four legs, two wheels, and flies" (a horse-drawn manure cart) quests to give XP, but I don't think they would truly satisfy anything. Considering that the Hive quest required me to create two items, four NPCs, three conversations, a pair of conversation-specific scripts, and the quest itself...
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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jukejointjezebel
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
In my years of r-p, online and off, paper and keyboard, the two funnest, most satisfying experiences for me have been player driven conflict and winning. Winning for some might be beating the big boss encounter. For some it might be completing a story and character development arc. For some it might be finally putting the finishing touches on an area and submitting it for final approval. Or it just might be punking a buddy who needed to be humbled. It comes in myriad forms but the important thing for DMs to be able to do is being able to tailor a winning experience into their campaigns. It might come in the form of a special item, a +1 max level for that particular character, or just simple recognition of achievement. Winning is great and more importantly, it comes in many different forms. But even that gets boring after a bit.

What really gets my juices flowing is player driven conflict. SCOD unfortunately has a ridiculous allegiance to Canon that could stand to be amended a bit.

For example, 18 factions sucks in general. It especially sucks on a server whose highest population I've seen in two years was 33-35. Cut the number of playable factions by 2/3 and you've got a good start, or at least a higher concentration of unhappy players unhappying each other so much they might do something. '

Second, you have players that have been chomping at the bit for their own guild houses. Merchant house rivals, I'm not sorry to say, have a lot more traction, a lot more at stake, are a lot more engaging, a lot more genuinely hostile towards their enemies, than the ill-conceived factions. Let me make this very clear. I"m talking conflict, not necessarily pvp.

On an unrelated note, I've heard on more than a few occasions that players need to be willing to lose. Fascinating. The two times I've taken part in DM run events as an epic ended with the party getting smashed horribly. Who is it that has the problem with losing? I daresay it is a DM that squashes the group, has some sort of Deus Ex Machina moment where the NPC Solars come storming in to save the day, and never follows through the continuation of the plot. And that's a damn shame, because up until that point I thought that the dragon encounter run by Chroneopsis was the best, most imaginitive, approach to a fight I've seen handled in realtime by a DM--ever.

I was part of another group in Carceri where we witnessed an Atropal escaping the plane. Sounds pretty serious huh? Nope. Not that serious. We got slaughtered by the lone, custom, souped up Vampire Monk, suffered the humiliation of being impaled on spears and brought back to Sigil by Farratsus who had nothing to do with the ass-kicking we received. Funny that. Was it the level-significantly-higher-than-me vampire monk who was carrying my body? Nope. It was a gaggle of Farratsus who had nothing to do with the encounter. And what of the consequences of allowing an Atropal escape Carceri? Nothing. Was there some elaborate plotline involved or was a DM incensed that a party of seven was crushing everything in Carceri?

What is wrong with this place? As with any heavy r-p server, it's too damn stuffy. I earned my r-p chops a long time ago. I've regaled the marketplace with humor, conflict, and conversation, and on more than one occasion have been the cause of tea or coffee being spat out onto the monitor in laughter. Despite that, the only audience I've been able to earn with the DMs has been over my funny names. That's fine. It's easy to dismiss the unserious names for unserious players. You've got the likes of the player formerly known as DM_Duke screaming for ideological r-p purity. Does anyone believe that stricter enforcement of the rules to the point where players get perma-booted is the answer to creative stagnation? Brilliant. Great paraphrase of that time-tested mantra. "The bannings will continue until players become more interesting!"

Is it possible the development core is running out of time, ideas, and energy, and is finding noone ready to replace them? There are consequences to clumping up together the way I believe many of you have. The lot of you may have worked great together three years ago. What now? Who is ready to take those reins now that you're exhausted? I'm sorry? Noone? Could it be that in the midst of your mutual back-slapping and glad-handing you forgot to put in the mechanisms to allow new DM talent to flourish? You say it is next to impossible to create effective, challenging encounters for epics while you ignore the good advice of your talented testing team.

As for the challenge of making encounters and quests and events accessible to everyone, has anyone conceived of the way to separate groups by levels and have a different DM for each group? You can have the lowbies doing the lowbie part of the mission being run by the lowbie DM. You can have the middlings doing the middling part of the mission being run by the middling DM. You can have the highs, and then the epics. Four separate DMs might sound high, but when you're confronted by a level range of 1-30, wtf are you going to do? I mean, wtf are you going to do besides what you have been doing that has built up a lot of player resentment; that is, excluding the epics? These missions could be intertwined so that failure on the part of one group can have an profound impact on the others' chances.

MadPorthos brought me here and it is because of him that I still am. The factions are a bloated waste of time and energy. DMs create interesting plotlines that fizzle out. Players want to effectively change the landscape a bit and are met with fierce resistance. And finally, maybe it's just me, but when you have more restrictions about initiating unwanted pvp over unwanted erp, in a dnd setting no less, your priorities are skewed. Note, only one of them requires asking consent.
Thrym HammerClang - -Reluctant Dwarven Merchant
Jarlz Bergh -- Ogre WeaponMaster
Yew're Kiddunmeigh -- Elven Light Bow of Solonor
Sstrepekorr -- Yuan-Ti Halfbreed StormLord
Plitzsskin -- Yuan-Ti Halfbreed Ranger
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laozhe
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Prime
[ *  * ]
While I haven't had the luck to have party wipes on DM run events, I'll agree theirs a serious "So what?" factor going on.

Instead of a set of leather armor, lets say Greencloak finds a +5 leather suit. So what? Theirs really no one new that often to sell it to, not many characters use leather all the way and despite it being the best leathers around, it sells for the same as any enchanted leather.

Right now he's a level 25 about - Fighter, Weapon Master and Frenzied Berserker. Its not invincible by any means, but its still a deadly mix of two of the most useful melee classes in the game, combining enhanced critical capability with the choice to hit like a freight train. He's also wearing armor that is almost the best in the game I know of. His sword is a Holy Avenger, a weapon purpose built to end fiends and evil in general in the face.
So what?
I always have to be a little careful in Minauros because the Dogai sneak attacks are hitting me for something above 50 VERY regularly. The Abyss, which is more his level range, is right out unless I buff up with wands and even then its not an entirely safe bet.

Trusting in things to r ight themselves with time is probably the worst choice - I've seen that kill good communities outside NWN. Especially in our circumstances - obsidian basically dropped the game, and lets face it, the player base is regularly losing players than gaining them.

What we have is probably all we'll get.
Broven Veridian AKA GREENCLOAK - Swordsman, hidden agenda.

Nikulai Masters AKA THE MASTER - Never will my knee bend or my hand enslave.

Null - Heeeeey~

Sibuna Goodshield - Ehns Lives.
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Ceremorph
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
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Juke, that was for the most part a well-thought-out essay, although the vehemence does make me wonder if there's anything about SCoD you actually like. Still, that's your right to say, and I'll admit there's some truth in it. Except for one thing that I do have to comment on.

Quote:
 
And finally, maybe it's just me, but when you have more restrictions about initiating unwanted pvp over unwanted erp, in a dnd setting no less, your priorities are skewed. Note, only one of them requires asking consent.


That's just wrong. If you start PnPing people without their permission, you will probably get talked to by a DM. On the other hand, if someone ERPs people without their permission, I will personally make sure that they find somewhere else to do that sort of thing, and I think I can say with conviction that the other members of the team would do the same.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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Reptiller
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Mimir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Regarding Factions...they're not rubbish. However, they should be made more tangible(prefferebly while not trying to shoot down a player group :P). Both players and DMs can help that, it had been...a year since I've seen recruiters of two different Factions(and both were PCs) running recruitment posts in the Bazaar. PCs and DMs both can make the Factions flourish by doing very simple and not too time consuming things. As for how Factions are now...Let me put it this way: Cartel, an outlawed organization, has more active players than -any and all- of the canon Factions nowadays and that's considering how about half of people in Factions are actually Cartel members. This, by the by, is no bragging. Just saying that Factions are poorly presented.

As for unfair odds in DM events., whether for party's or antagonist benefit..that just happens. People screw up CR, I did so recently as well...I am not saying it's a good thing, actually any DM should study both the PCs under his responsibility AND the NPCs they're using as enemies closely, gear included.
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cryptc
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"The bannings will continue until players become more interesting!"


:rofl:
"One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook
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MarQuis
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Prime
[ *  * ]
Stop whining and play the F...... game! I dont have any complaints about Sigil.....but maybe others have from me? (this wasnt constructive comment i know BAN ME!) :angrymob:
"Smurff 'em all and let God sort 'em out!"
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lorgin_2003
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Greybeard
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to recap......

old player are bad.

plotlines are the players' job.

building is the players' job.

carrots on a stick are the solution to everything.

well, good luck with that.....
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Darker_Thought
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Blooded Squirrel
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Okay so i guess alot of "good and bad" have ben presented to this thread and i do commend Mr.O for creating it, since we do seem to have gotten several good points out in the light for al to see. :)

First of al yes the OOC Player and Admin/Dm meetings would be an exellent way to actually speak to you guys who run the server in person. And yes i do strongly suggest both us players and Dm's keep a positive attitude during these since i guess some of you think such a meeting can turn into mere complaints and bitching about server, however i was also an old TFR player as Reptiller and Mr.O was and that past server server meetings have worked really good since they give the players a sense of "We are with developing this server". It's not that you Admin/Dm's should have to agree or make al changes that are suggested there but the feeling of that Players have the power to make a diffrence oocly in the server's future is great for morale i think personally and instead of sending an idea and get a one time response we can actually have a discussion with you guys about it. :) Just relaying that suggestion once more since i think it is worth a try. Remember if this is goin to work, a diplomatic aproach and the "attitude" in general would decide if this is goin to work or not.

On the several issues of the servers "Role Play Activity" there is much that can be done. However it's kinda silly to see how both sides here throw crap at eachother saying "THIS IS YOUR FAULT" :rock: , neather Dm's nor players can really solve this alone in my opinion. Only if we changed the attitudes and started to look at the solutions instead of each time goin over the damn problems since we al already know those. So keep on reading this to the end now because this will say alot of both sides before you think that im siding with eather since i am "not". So yes maybe we have had quite few Dm events the last days but remember these guys are not gods oocly, they only have "that" much time. This is a game after al and RL usually comes first. And they are giving up alot of freetime to run this server and i know what it's like when you put alot of work in it and people just keep on complaining. Maybe some of those complaints are justified or not i am not really goin to point any fingers here. Instead why not try solving the Dm issue with recrouting some more "Rp event oriented Dm's" if you have players you think will qualify. Since Em's have a limited access to create events. And to be honest the best server is an *Unpredictable" server. Which means in my opinion alot of mini events and a few Larger ones that stretches over a large timespan.
By "Mini-Events" an example could be a group fighting in abyss and suddenly get's aproeached by a Devil wanting you to aid in disposing the oposing side (Tan'ari), or perhaps her superior..*evil grin* :plotting: The smaler events counts to since as i said it makes the server "Unpredictable" and that usually means fun. :)

And playerwise i do agree that many of uss have sadly ended up playing statues at the Khazeet's wall. xD Myself included at times... -.-' It's sometimes hard to be creative when we al aren't really motivated enough for change. And events overall...you don't really have to be a Dm to create events...Myself i love creating player events with my characters. Mostly i use my Mage and Summon creatures having a dialouge with the DMFI tool to create one sending mostly lower lvls on missions and so on. I mean...we have Pylomorph and SHapechange spells...and items that can transform uss into a large variety of creatures to be used in self created events. My personal favorite being summoning a creature and then goin hips letting the creature summoned lead the event. And believe me if you plan it carefully enough it works. But even logging in with temporary characters just made for "That event" is just as good as having a Dm controll an NPC. So we can do it to guys! :P

But we need to face that Nwn2 is an old game. It's not that common anymore that people buy it from the store and go on online anymore. Hoping for a 70 player "RP" population isnt really possible anymore but i think the playerbase can rise a bit more with some initiative. However ScoD has survived for a long time and personally i hope we can put some new fires into this one. The problems aren't that big really. We are making them worse by goin over the same problem over and over again. In short if al off uss can take the initiative for just let's say a week and give it al we got i think you will notice the change.

And on the "Nice to Newbie" i can't really say iv'e seen any Hostility or "freezing out" to be honest. However if it does happen i hope those people can get their act together and start trying... <_< Myself im running an organisation that provides jobs(Events/Missions) for characters for jink. Usually lowbies but it's for al of uss. Ofcourse i did have a little incident with a new guy that stole my signs telling me he thought it was trash... :cursing: However i did forgive him. :P


So really guys i have seen one server(TFR) degnerate because of these things. Players and Admin not getting along since they both think they know exactly what needs to be done and changed. But really it's the attitude and initiative that makes it al come together so myself i will atleast keep on trying to help the server with the resources i have available. ^^

ScoD will prevail! :beer:
Characters:
*Narissa V'xtre (Tiefling Mage and Leader of "The S'jet Organisation)
*Bael'phegora(Sabel) (Seer of the Blooded Lotus)
*Kira (Fiendish Dark Elf / Astral traveler)
*Naomi Auroras(Human Holy Warrior)

Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
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Darkrob
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Admin
lorgin_2003,Aug 1 2012
06:11 AM
to recap......

old player are bad.

plotlines are the players' job.

building is the players' job.

carrots on a stick are the solution to everything.

well, good luck with that.....

Pretty much :yeaaah:
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Darker_Thought
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Blooded Squirrel
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
And..ehem..i know im gonna get alot of crap for this but i actually do like the idea of a complete "Character Vault Whipe"... To get rid of the damn uber items hiding... :ph43r:
And Since it creates a new beginning. However the major risk i guess is that players do not want to leave their previous character and wont come back to make a new one. But...just a wild thought far away :P

*Waits for the oncomming storm of Player SMITES* :blink:
Characters:
*Narissa V'xtre (Tiefling Mage and Leader of "The S'jet Organisation)
*Bael'phegora(Sabel) (Seer of the Blooded Lotus)
*Kira (Fiendish Dark Elf / Astral traveler)
*Naomi Auroras(Human Holy Warrior)

Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ohh no! Those pesky uber items! They make us spellcasters seem equaled by non-spellcasters! Curses, our gap of superiority is just not wide enough! How does that fighter dare to resist one of my quickened spells in his round?!
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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Darker_Thought
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Blooded Squirrel
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I remember when people went around with "Hipster" Powerbuilds with "Rings of Regeneration" O.o . That was...disturbing xD
Characters:
*Narissa V'xtre (Tiefling Mage and Leader of "The S'jet Organisation)
*Bael'phegora(Sabel) (Seer of the Blooded Lotus)
*Kira (Fiendish Dark Elf / Astral traveler)
*Naomi Auroras(Human Holy Warrior)

Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Just because a few old characters got lucky back in the day and were clever enough to shut up about their items doesn't mean you have to wipe out everyone's time and work by deleting their characters. No offense, but that has to be the stupidest solution I've ever heard for a multiplayer RPG.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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ManyFaced
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Choosy testers choose Jif.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Darker_Thought,Aug 1 2012
06:58 AM
I remember when people went around with "Hipster" Powerbuilds with "Rings of Regeneration" O.o . That was...disturbing xD

...mine of got her ring removed. :(

And @Vault wipe: Those kill servers without fail, unless the server was designed with them in mind and with ample warning.
"Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step."
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