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planar turning
Topic Started: Aug 23 2012, 04:27 PM (428 Views)
Er_Nano_Infame
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EL NANO!!
Tester
i recall this issue being brought to attention already, i think.

planar turning makes no distinction between types of outsiders, alignments, npcs or pcs, enemies or friendly outsiders.
and is activated even if one just want to turn undeads

any way to fix this?
Maewind:''That's still plant-hating! That makes you a plant racist!''

Lucelle Vand'hovar: ''Miss Maewind, i assure you, the plants started this conflict.''

Nienna: ''Razorvine is hardly a plant, in her defense.''

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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
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I don't believe you can rebuke/command undead in NWN2, so not much to differentiate there. >.> If they're outsiders, they should be able to be turned like any type of undead.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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Agony_Aunt
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Get a Life
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Sure, can make it check the users alignment and by making a separate feat could even make it so that you can choose between turning undead or outsiders (although why anyone would want that i'm not sure, its not often you are under attack by both types at once, and then don't see why you would want to chose... you want to turn as much as possible).

Oh yeah, it would be possible to change the effect to Rebuke or Command as well if we really wanted.

Not something that I'm willing to pick up on at the moment though as it works fine as is, and it already got some changes earlier in the year.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
Pretty sure the idea behind this was mainly the distinction between friend and foe. As in not turning your own summons or special race characters in your group and only the hostiles.
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Er_Nano_Infame
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EL NANO!!
Tester
Agony_Aunt,Aug 23 2012
05:09 PM
(although why anyone would want that i'm not sure, its not often you are under attack by both types at once, and then don't see why you would want to chose... you want to turn as much as possible).


in the case you have some allies that matches either of those types. but if a distinction could be made between allies of foes, of course there's no need for such.
Maewind:''That's still plant-hating! That makes you a plant racist!''

Lucelle Vand'hovar: ''Miss Maewind, i assure you, the plants started this conflict.''

Nienna: ''Razorvine is hardly a plant, in her defense.''

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Agony_Aunt
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Why should it discriminate?

*whips out holy symbol* "Back foul beings, in the name of Pelor i do hereby abjure thee! Oh, but not you... and you... i like you"

Invoking the name of your deity to turn back undead/outsiders is to invoke their powers. A god who does not appreciate undead is not going to let some piddling little clerical servant to tell them that the undead in their party should not be turned, they all go down.

And, its one of the fun things when playing a cleric when there is a special race in the party.

For extra fun, if you are high level, invoke Turn Outsider when you are near a new special race Succubus character and watch them be destroyed. "Oh, sorry, didn't know you were an outsider" ::evilgrin::
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Er_Nano_Infame
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EL NANO!!
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:rolleyes: go trust deities... <.<
Maewind:''That's still plant-hating! That makes you a plant racist!''

Lucelle Vand'hovar: ''Miss Maewind, i assure you, the plants started this conflict.''

Nienna: ''Razorvine is hardly a plant, in her defense.''

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Mr_Otyugh
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Agony_Aunt,Aug 24 2012
06:28 AM
Why should it discriminate?

*whips out holy symbol* "Back foul beings, in the name of Pelor i do hereby abjure thee! Oh, but not you... and you... i like you"

Invoking the name of your deity to turn back undead/outsiders is to invoke their powers. A god who does not appreciate undead is not going to let some piddling little clerical servant to tell them that the undead in their party should not be turned, they all go down.

And, its one of the fun things when playing a cleric when there is a special race in the party.

For extra fun, if you are high level, invoke Turn Outsider when you are near a new special race Succubus character and watch them be destroyed. "Oh, sorry, didn't know you were an outsider" ::evilgrin::

Well there in lies a bit logic in that, but lets instead put two outsiders in the opposing sides. To stick with Pelor theme lets put in the side of foes demons and devils both, but on your side is a solar. Solar being the very herald of Pelor so... I'm pretty sure he'd be less imposing to solar than he'd be to the fiends ;) and it could be any angelic outsider for this to really work exactly same.
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Agony_Aunt
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Ah, well that brings in alignment based turning, which could be done.
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Azulfae
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Just a related question on outsider turningor turning in general.

If I had a level 28 bladeling it would be ECL of 30
and then I also had a level 20 Cornugon it would be an ECL of 30

Now the cornugon is considered to be a much higher ranking devil in the fiend rankings but due to the two beings reaching an ECL max the cornugon is increadibly easy to turn due to low actual levels and the bladeling is very hard to turn do to having more actual levels.

This seems wrong to me somehow.

I mean imagine a pit fiend now with ECL 30 and literally 1 level on it is instantly turnable by any low level priest with good domain because of actual levels.

Is there any way of factoring ECL into Turning Hit Dice because right now the sole purpose of my Cornugon was to fight the blood war and the only area he can really do this is the Maze which is the only abyss area that isn't full of hostile devils and he gets instantly stunned as all the acolytes of baphomet charge him and spam turn outsider 10000 times.

There has to be a way of outsiders and fiends building resistance to save against turning without gaining levels because that heavily penalises the more powerful fiends. I know for certain you can't turn the leader types in the abyss easier than the lowbie fiends so it's set up proportionately for spawns at least.
Vorgazar listens to Slayer

Warchief - The Iron Tusk
Kail Onifhet - Disciple of the Void
Night Hag - Betsy The Child Eater
Worgazhul - Devout of Luna
Wurzig Gimbleglow - Xaositect Transmuter
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Tomekk
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I believe there is a tattoo for it... but what you said about being higher ranked does make sense, should be harder to turn in theory.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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Azulfae
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Iron Tusk Warchief
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Yeah I got the tattoo +15 to resist turning and you still get owned in 'one turn attempt' and then they spam turn outsider over and over whilst the others hack you apart until your dead.

::whyuno::
Vorgazar listens to Slayer

Warchief - The Iron Tusk
Kail Onifhet - Disciple of the Void
Night Hag - Betsy The Child Eater
Worgazhul - Devout of Luna
Wurzig Gimbleglow - Xaositect Transmuter
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Tomekk
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Azulfae,Aug 26 2012
02:36 AM
Yeah I got the tattoo +15 to resist turning and you still get owned in 'one turn attempt' and then they spam turn outsider over and over whilst the others hack you apart until your dead.

::whyuno::

You said you had 20 levels... and with that tattoo, your HD vs turning should be 35. How the hell do they manage to turn THAT when I had trouble with making 30 CL cleric who could turn level 30s.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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Sareth675
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Somebody
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Empowered Turning Feats? I can't remember but, sun domain = exceptional turning...?

Empower turning adds your cleric level + CHA Mod... then x1.5. 30 clerics with a minimum of say... 4 Cha Mod, easily knock around 51 on their turning.

If the priests of Baphomet have that, any cleric for that matter should be able to waffle stomp their way over the Abyss / Baator, even Carceri. Seen it done before actually.

I think a way for turns to be stuck to alignment would make sense, a goodly god wouldn't banish Celestials, likewise an evil diety might not allow his clerics to banish his devil / demon minions. Might go a step further and put on the Lawful / Chaos axis as well
So evil, devil worshipping cultists can turn demons...

Doomguide doesn't seem like such a bad PRC on Sigil now... *rubs chin*
Karn Scale-Rage = Let's feed the crows!
Van Darkholme = Feel the lash of the spanking! *whip noises*
Noramos Churston = Oh! That wasn't supposed to happen...
Shrub Conifer = Nature... Will rise against you!

Me alts got wiped so I'm making a new string of nut jobs. Enjoy!

If ever somebody needs help levelling, I always have a character in range... or delevellable.
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Agony_Aunt
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Had a Doomguide Cleric with Sun domain and all turning related feats. Didn't get him to level 30, but even at level 20+ he could stun most things in the Abyss without a sweat, and even if surrounded he could stun half of the first round and the remaining on the second. He didn't even have massive CHA either.
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