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| Invisibility And Ai; Explain this to me... | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 29 2013, 02:14 AM (280 Views) | |
| Licca | Jun 29 2013, 02:14 AM Post #1 |
Blood
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Here's the scenario. My character is seen while in battle by a skeleton. I throw up an invisibility spell, and I go invisible. Now, I've got a skeleton wandering around me, and it's almost like it knows where I am, and no matter where I move on the map, I get followed, and I can't shake the skeleton. Is there something that I'm forgetting about how the game works? |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Goatrider | Jun 29 2013, 04:59 AM Post #2 |
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Blood
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AI is wonky like that. I don't know much about it, but it seems like it still thinks it has LOS on you, then the script tells it it doesn't, then it remembers you're there, ad nauseum. Same thing happens with HiPS. Sometimes letting it get close corrects it, and whatever it is will rush up and walk away, but it's sketchy since that can provoke an attack from you. |
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| Agony_Aunt | Jun 29 2013, 06:29 AM Post #3 |
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Get a Life
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Only way to avoid this is to get out of its LOS before casting invisibility. The biggest killer is if you have a wounding weapon or some sort of effect that does damage over time. Then its treated like you are attacking it, so the affected creature gets to see you like it would if you had attacked with a weapon. Once that creature attacks you, all other creatures that are around can also mysteriously see you. Unfortunately, this is just a game engine issue and not much we can do about it. |
| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Jun 29 2013, 07:30 AM Post #4 |
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A little history of NWN2 is in order. Invisibility actually didn't work at all the first couple of years of NWN2, as in everyone could see you except the NPC... I think it actually worked much better against NPC back then. But two things changed with the last expansion pack addon as well as the last official updates. First the AI was changed from base game to a more effective and metagame-y AI (tonyK) which started to know all your weaknesses before it even attempted anything as well as target spells slightly differently. Second is the invisibility was changed from functional vs AI to functional vs PCs as well so that if you're out of their line of sight the players can't see you either without sufficient spells. So it's either the spell change or the AI that reacts to it that way, I'm somewhat bound to believe that it's the AI since it seems to go with the "OnHeartBeat" (That is 6 second time window) before they remember "Oh yeah, I can't see them!". Alas even beyond this they want to get close, I again think it's matter of AI being scripted to move next to you instead of attacking you, I'd do it by moving past them so that avoids your character trying to whack them with an attack of opportunity... you can see if you allow them to get next to you after that 6 second period that they won't actually do anything... they just want to be close to you for a second before moving on. When using invisibility you need one of two ways to break their following (although they're unlikely to attack without real ability to see through it after 6 second mark when the OnHeartBeat triggers to remind them of the renewed status of PC): Casting the spell out of the line of sight, or having a foe they CAN see get back at them... that means summons/animal companions/henchmen and they will target those and forget about you. |
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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| Selebius | Jun 30 2013, 07:11 AM Post #5 |
Factor
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Short addendum: If you are extremely unlucky and you trigger an attack of opportunity before the opponent realizes you are invisible again that opponent might take that AOO and kill you. A lesson learned by having wizards roam the gardens of Death of Innocence.... AOOs your own toon might take can be prevented by activating parrying mode BTW. |
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| Licca | Jun 30 2013, 07:21 AM Post #6 |
Blood
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That's where I actually was having trouble with invisibility and the AI. For example, if I do the same thing in the Plane of Ice versus the frost giants or the elemental, they would just give up and try to go somewhere, and not just track me. |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Selebius | Jun 30 2013, 07:40 AM Post #7 |
Factor
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In Nifl? Hehehe. That place is cursed and haunted, I tell you! ...and thinking of it I never had troubles in the Abyss or Carceri. Sure some opponents use divinations but the rank and file mooks do nothing. Hm. I am no expert in this matter but I cannot think of a reason why the opponents behave differently. ...or is it possible that the Niflghosts have high listen and so still can detect a toon? |
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| Licca | Jun 30 2013, 07:48 AM Post #8 |
Blood
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The ghosts aren't the problem in this case. The skeletons that the warlocks summon are the problem. |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Jun 30 2013, 09:29 AM Post #9 |
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Paraelemental Plane of Ice has a lot of corridors and complex walkmesh which makes he AI refocus their attention to finding a route around it much quicker, open areas with not a lot of walkmesh cutters are likely to be the biggest issue areas since you're their only focus. In Abyss there are plenty enemies for them to refocus as well, but let the area be cleared of one of the sides and you'll notice they'll track you down too. As for the critters in Niflheim, listen doesn't really do anything against invis although it technically should. Niflheim might look like a lot of closed space and corners, but the tileset isn't, diplomatically said, quite the best quality of them all. Infact you can toss grenade like weapons through some of the walls... so they tend to be able to see a lot further than you'd think in that area. Walkmesh at some parts is very complex that might make them forget you, but there's also plenty enough easy access routes. But really unless they really see you, then just put parry mode on and walk past them after 6 second mark and they'll be content of having got close to you and not even attempt to attack (unless they have "spotter" trait or spells to reveal you). And those skeletons eh... weren't they mainly just in the outside area anyway? That's open space and you're only enemies, so yeah. |
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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| WhenWizardsWar | Jun 30 2013, 12:14 PM Post #10 |
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Factotum
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In general yes everyone is correct, the AI usually will get close to you, then suddenly realise "Hey where did the little guy go?" and wander off on its merry way. Some advice, dont trust your hit points to this quirk of fate in the abyss or other high level areas, i have to becareful of this with all my squishy spell casters, because ill blow something up, go invisible and see enemies still running towards me. No problem, its just the AI waiting to realise im invisible! *SPLAT* Effin True Sight.... |
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I play: Miranda Ildesserin-"You have no idea what fear is, the greatest fear a mother can have is that of her child growing up...alone" Eisinar Mindblade: Illithid Soul Knife: "As long as I have my mind, i am never with out a weapon". Xil'ar'ran'oss-Beholder Psion:What do you mean "IF" looks could kill? | |
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| Kree | Jul 4 2013, 11:17 AM Post #11 |
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Namer
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This is actually a quirk of the AI ever since the old update that included the reworking. The AI doesn't consider invisibility to be invisibility, giving chase and sometimes even attacking. It's only ever useful if you cast it out of the enemy's sight and hasn't worked like a magical hide in plain sight for a very long time... |
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| Plaxy100 | Jul 24 2013, 11:00 PM Post #12 |
Does not infact have a Greybeard
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Just some quick advice about traveling stealth and Invisable, Activate Parry mode, everyone has it, it turns off all attacking in the exception of a retalitory strike by succefull parry. While in Parry mode you char won't be stupid and break Stealth by attacking the metagaming hezrue thats running cirles around your invisable character. |
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GMT: -8. Player Tag: Plaxy100 Steamtag: Plaxy186 Characters: Merrium Pinklily (The Red Death Hin) Brandon Burnfire (Master Evoker) Zinex (half lune warlock) Sssylvgh (Yuan-ti Arcane trickster) Timothy Jack (Bard of the Fated) | |
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