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Roleplaying Imprisonment/capturing
Topic Started: Aug 29 2013, 08:10 PM (1,678 Views)
Darkrob
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While I agree with the new rule, I'd like to discuss one aspect and that, obviously, is breaking the law.

If your char kills someone, and is witnessed (and then captured by the Harmonium), the arresting officer should not be forced to stop being accessible for IG RP for arresting him/her. Basically if I arrest your char with my Hardhead (within the lawful confines of the city) for doing something that warrants lock up, I shouldn't have to suffer for it. I didn't break the law and I'm not the one who should pay. If your character did, you're now a ward of the state and the DM's (or Em's or presiding PC's if available) should now be responsible for you. My hardhead should be permitted to go back on duty.

The rest, fine. Capture or hold a PC, be out of the game for as long... but not Hardheads (or those put in Hardhead custody). They`re wards of the state.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Mr_Otyugh
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Lets say, during the time of captivity until trial proves them guilty and sentenced to... whatever. If that be prison, then the one responsible of capturing is free of their boundaries. I think that's a happy medium for both sides.
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Agony_Aunt
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Get a Life
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
EDIT: Mr_O got in before me, so slightly changing what i was going to post.

A suggestion is that you can try handing him over to a case officer (EM/DM/Player), who will move the RP forward. Failing that, if nobody else is willing to take over the captivity within a timescale that both parties are happy with (be that 1 min or 1 week) then its up to the player and anyone else involved to work out a reasonable punishment that can be enacted quickly to avoid unreasonable loss of playtime for all involved.

This could quickly be handled as a rush trial (he is whisked off before a judge who makes a summary judgement).

Of course, both sides should consider the evidence available. The criminal should not be unwilling to face a penality if the evidence is damning, and likewise the Hardhead should not automatically "win" if the evidence is weak.

Of course, we don't want people thinking they can walk around Sigil murdering people (ICly), being caught, and back on the streets within a couple of hours as though nothing happened. That's just bad RP.

So, for example, the evidence is pretty strong, so the offender agrees to be hit with a fine and expulsion from Sigil (go buy something from merchant that costs a decent % of their total gold, then drop it in the trash). Of course, Sigil is a big place, so they get expelled, and can walk back in the next day with a new identity, new clothes, etc. Only the criminally stupid would return looking the same, openly giving the same name, and greeting friends openly etc. They should RP their return with subtlety and covertly.

eg: "Sorry berk, don't know this Mustafa guy you are talking about. What do you mean i look just like him? Racist! I bet you think we Yuanti all look the same!"

Something like that?
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Darkrob
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That`s fine so long as there is a DM/EM willing to take on these things. If not, you`re simply going to have Hardhead characters ignoring PC criminals because it`s not worth the risk of temporarily losing their own characters for the actions of someone else's. If I`m at risk of losing access to my character because there is no DM or EM willing to take over after the arrest of someone who wants to play a criminal... odds are I`ll not bother to arrest.

This is the area where other players (or DM`s and EM`s) need to step up to the plate.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Mr_Otyugh
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And now you know how the prisoners feel ;) welcome to equality.
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StarSight
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
I think "handing off" the responsibility for the prisoner might be fine in theory, but it is prone to abuse if not handled properly. The core idea, which I think is brilliant, is to ensure that things keep moving and the prisoner is not just "out of sight out of mind" or otherwise in limbo.

In other words, the captors, not just the captive, has a very real impetus to keep things moving. The whole idea isn't to punish the captor along with the captive, the idea is to avoid prolonged and boring incarceration entirely, and instead promote interesting RP.

Don't want to be stuck for prolonged time? Well get em in front of the judge and so you can get back to work! Or slap em with a fine, or let em go if you don't have enough proof on their misdeeds.

Conversely, who do you think is going to move up in the Harmonium ranks? Someone who shirks at having to go through the process, or someone who takes care to keep the wheels turning in the name of Order?
Player of:
Auric Tenebrason - Yuan-Ti finding himself
Cael O'Malley - A warrior who's heard many myths...and now finds himself in one.
Donovan SeYara - A man in pink.
Kadosh Purifico - Grinning Sinker.
Szuryu - Seeker of Marobashi.
Verdant Waves - A Godsman man of faith.
And a few more that won't fit...yeah I'm an altoholic.

"The greatest problem with communication is the illusion it has already taken place."
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Darkrob
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It`s not equality. If someone wants to play a moron in town, a badass with a chip on his shoulder and he does something stupid that warrants arrest (assault, murder, arson, whatever) why should my Notary be taken out of play if I call him on it an arrest him. It`s not my fault this guy`s being a dick... it`s his. This sort of thing, without DM or EM help, is simply going to make Harmonium characters turn the other cheek and blatantly break RP by ignoring the crime.

This rule, for Law enforcement characters, will hurt RP more than it will aid it. Harmonium characters will ignore crime in order to `mechanically` protect their characters. Good intentions I agree, a good idea for most situations, but for Law enforcement characters... nothing but shackles preventing proper RP.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
You have no objections putting the thing on someone else, but as soon as it happens to you it's a horrible thing :P as far as I'm concerned it's equality. Both of those things are matters of causality. If you don't want to be locked on it long, get it solved quick. If you don't want to put someone in prison, then come up with alternative methods rather than tossing people in limbo and forgetting about them. Don't have damning evidences? investigate longer.

Your roleplay as a Hardhead is tied to there being criminals to capture, that's the reality of it, they're just as discouraged by this as you are yet willing to go through it. I'm not going to hand one side of roleplayers greater benefit.
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Darkrob
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Well I guess hardhead RP is going to mean squat now.

I'm standing in the inn, chatting with someone and in walks Dumbass McGee. He gets in a spat (planned or otherwise) with someone else. They argue, he draws a blade, and kills the other. I've seen it all. Well... instead of doing what a hardhead would do and arresting him... I simply ignore it (destroying RP immersion and realistic RP Reactions) and continue on with my chat. Why? Well... suddenly I have to haul this dick back to jail and, wait for it, take my character out of play, destroying my RP and the RP of those I was with, because there isn't an EM or DM around to take care of this.

Fun...

Equality is me arresting people for minor shit or for kicks. Yeah... that I understand. It's to stop abuse. But for other things? Not gonna happen. If my character is in danger of being taken out of play because someone else wants to play the badass thug... go ahead. Torment the city all you want. Far as I'm concerned (RP or ooc) it didn't happen. Burn the entire Inn down for all I care. I'm not going to stop you. I might lose my character until an EM or DM get's off their butt to sort it out.

Sorry... that's just foolish.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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StarSight
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Darkrob,Aug 29 2013
06:07 PM
because there isn't an EM or DM around to take care of this.

Okay, I'm missing something. How is the lack of an available EM/DM the major stumbling block here?
Player of:
Auric Tenebrason - Yuan-Ti finding himself
Cael O'Malley - A warrior who's heard many myths...and now finds himself in one.
Donovan SeYara - A man in pink.
Kadosh Purifico - Grinning Sinker.
Szuryu - Seeker of Marobashi.
Verdant Waves - A Godsman man of faith.
And a few more that won't fit...yeah I'm an altoholic.

"The greatest problem with communication is the illusion it has already taken place."
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Darkrob
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Admin
StarSight,Aug 29 2013
07:10 PM
Darkrob,Aug 29 2013
06:07 PM
because there isn't an EM or DM around to take care of this.

Okay, I'm missing something. How is the lack of an available EM/DM the major stumbling block here?

Because if I arrest someone and take him to the Barracks for doing something serious... I hand him over to those in charge and they run him through the system and decide his guilt and punishment. I'm simply an arresting officer. A DM or EM can take the part of a measure or Mover (or judge or whatever) and decide his fate. They can decide how long he's locked up for. Me? I've done my duty. I arrested him and filled out the paperwork. Back to my patrol I go.

I don't have the authority to pass a sentence that will prolong the sentence of a major crime. That's up to the DM's EM's...
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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StarSight
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Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well, you do and you don't, I think. Yes, you cannot autocratically apply a punishment to another player, Harmonium (or for that matter any triad) are not "DM's Helpers" or somesuch. However, you CAN talk to the player, and see if something can be negotiated out. IT's ok if the other player consents, after all. If it can't be talked out, well, then it's the same as the other player not consenting to you taking them in to begin with, isn't it?
Player of:
Auric Tenebrason - Yuan-Ti finding himself
Cael O'Malley - A warrior who's heard many myths...and now finds himself in one.
Donovan SeYara - A man in pink.
Kadosh Purifico - Grinning Sinker.
Szuryu - Seeker of Marobashi.
Verdant Waves - A Godsman man of faith.
And a few more that won't fit...yeah I'm an altoholic.

"The greatest problem with communication is the illusion it has already taken place."
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
That's up to you then, I'm not going to tell you how to roleplay your character. But I know I'm done seeing these unhandled cases, if you're unwilling to make any negotiations with the other player or provide them roleplay the entire way, then feel free to ignore all of their RP if you so wish.

I can't seem to remember to have ever cared for casual Bob McRuinYourEvenings anyway, I'm yet to see anyone that has. They've dealt with it, walked to Barracks and that has been end of it. Usually at best I've said "Lets just say you're in prison for a while, feel free to go adventure or something and avoid public for the rest of the day, and get back to it tomorrow", has seemed to be more than enough :P
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Darkrob
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Well that's the difference between you and I. I prefer to make RP, even that RP that happens around me, important. Being forced to make a choice between losing my character for doing my duty, or ignoring RP that happens around me, seems disrespectful of RP in general. If this is, indeed, an RP server... we shouldn't be forced to suffer for another's RP choices by reacting properly. We shouldn't be forced to ignore RP in order to protect our own.

My Harmonium officer, as much as I like the RP, will no longer arrest character breaking the law. I will not damage my RP through the actions of another.

Sorry but that's that. You've made your call. You're not going to change it. So this is all I can do.

Rant over. Moving along now...
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
It's roleplayinggame, not a real life#2 simulator.
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