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| Roleplaying Imprisonment/capturing | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 29 2013, 08:10 PM (1,681 Views) | |
| Agony_Aunt | Aug 30 2013, 11:09 AM Post #31 |
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Get a Life
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That could be a better rule than the one outlined by Mr_O. In event of a capture or trial, both parties should OOCly work out what is going to happen in advance. If the parties cannot agree, then an independent, uninvolved third party (be it player, DM or EM) can be brought in to adjudicate. Once things are agreed then it works like your scenario. Instead of two (or more) players working against each other, they cooperate to tell the story as interestingly as possible. The added benefit is if someone fails to respond within reasonable time, the other can continue safe in the knowledge they are going in the right direction. |
| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 12:09 PM Post #32 |
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What about simple common sense? Whatever happened to that? Do people need rules in order to play protected criminals? Whatever happened to the old adage… you do the crime, you do the time? If you don’t want to risk getting tossed in a cell… don’t play a criminal, it’s that simple. You want to test the limits of the law, whether it’s your story or not, then expect to be punished by the law if you get caught. The law shouldn’t have to suffer for your criminality. You were the one playing the dumbass convinced he was above the law. The Harmonium officer merely did his job. As for holding them “pending” something… like until investigation is over or some such (like Agony and his Mustafa character)… yeah, I get that. There needs to be limits to such RP. He shouldn’t lose his character for a simple investigation… but if you just got caught knifing someone in the market, I mean an actual crime that demands arrest and something more than a fine… don’t expect to be out in an hour. That’s your problem; you broke the law. You’re a violent criminal. Tossed in a cell, stripped of possessions and rights, handed to the courts and then handed to the Mercykillers… that’s if the Harmonium doesn’t “accidently” kill you during the process. You think if some anarchist character detonates a bomb in the market and is caught by a Harmonium player, that they’ll just let him walk out a free man after an hour of RP? Yeah… right… the Mercykiller characters would exact justice on the officer for being such a dumbass and letting the rev go if that happened. No, the Rev character would be locked up way longer than an hour… and it’s not fair to have the Harmonium officer off limits to the player for hauling him in for the terrorist act. And what about the Mercykillers? Doesn't this rule take away from their right to RP Mercykillers? If the Harmonium player (arresting officer) is deciding the fate of the criminal... why play a mercykeller? Mercykillers can't arrest... so they're out in the cold no matter what happens. No RP, no nothing. Just "too bad. The Harmonium decided the prisoners fate and let him go a free man. You guys continue into obscurity. Buh bye". Enforce the law... but think it through a little better before you carve it into stone. That's why most governments have a second chamber (senate) before laws are passed... most times mistakes are made or things are overlooked during first reading. They point them out and send it back for revision. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| cryptc | Aug 30 2013, 12:13 PM Post #33 |
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Advisor
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Well, there's the flip side of the coin, since I agree with you there darkrob... there is too much tendencies of doing "whatever" since they like the attention it gets them, and they really know it just works out for them in the end somehow... (and it's when people start being a real ass about that, that we start considering dm interventions to bring some sanity) I'll admit to having no good answers here, since in my experience, the issue only occurs when one or both sides in the conflict are unrealistic in their expectations... I have no opinion on the announcement itself, but I understand the reasoning behind it... |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 12:32 PM Post #34 |
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I understand it as well, and (for the most part) agree with the intent. It makes good sense for a lot of situations... but it is flawed in the fact it paints every situation with the same brush. There is little room for exception. I think it simply needs to be withdrawn and rewritten. Take things into consideration... then release it. Right now it's far too penalizing to those who properly play Hardheads. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Agony_Aunt | Aug 30 2013, 12:52 PM Post #35 |
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Get a Life
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Hmm... the way i see it, its basically a case of piss or get off the pot. In other words, you make an arrest, you follow though, and resolve as fast as possible so people (including your own character) are not stopped from RPing. You mentioned that people who play criminals should be prepared to suffer consequences. Sure, i agree. But if those consequences are to stop RPing, its not fun, and then people will be turned off from playing criminals, then we are back to people standing around the Bazaar complaining nothing interesting ever happens. If your character is conducting a trial or interrogation, then they have no right at the same time be standing around Khazeets. If you think that, then the captured person can also do the same, and immersion can go to hell. Consequences can be made up quickly. As stated, quickly OOCly decide what is going to happen, then get back to playing. |
| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 01:03 PM Post #36 |
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Agony said;
but I had already covered this;
There are some things simple RP will not cure. Terrorism, murder, arson, long criminal history (eg;Phoenix) etc. You will be detained for longer than a simple hour. If you're out quicker than that for these things... then the RP you did is foolish and meaningless. The rule, as it is written, is flawed. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Aug 30 2013, 01:11 PM Post #37 |
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It may need re-branding but I am adamant when it comes to the laws side of responsibility as well. If it is turn off for playing one, then don't. It isn't nor has it been players task to punish players be their crime attention seeking or rulebreaking. Or then we can unleash the can of worms and allow the villains hold others indefinitely as well without any OOC intervention possibilities. |
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| Agony_Aunt | Aug 30 2013, 01:13 PM Post #38 |
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Get a Life
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In those situations there is still a way out, and it can be resolved quickly, as long as players are good sports and willing to RP things right. It does not have to stop people RPing and put characters in limbo. Remember the Hildmor trial? The demi-plane i invented of Isen-Daris which has the strange property of time moving differently? 1 year is like a day or something? Or make it 1 hour is like 20 years. Or throw them in some punishment plane, but of course, resourceful guys, can escape and be back within a day, causing hell for all and sundry. Remember, one rule of this server that is one of the main ones. Nobody can force your character to be killed off. You have to agree to it. If there is still more RP you would like to make with the character, or just stupidly to run round Carceri with them, then you can do it. There has to be an escape route given. On the other hand, if you are happy to have your character killed off as a consequence of their actions, tell the captor, a quick walk past a warm judge, and a hanging in the Bazaar (using the Mercykiller gallows placeable), and lots of fun can be had as well. Maybe i'm just failing to understand your objection to this rule? |
| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 01:18 PM Post #39 |
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A villain taking a prisoner (or hostage) is (90%) agreed upon RP between two people. A Criminal "setting off a bomb in the market" is a singular act that "forces" others to comply with the RP or pretend it didn't happen. Two entirely different monsters. The rule can easilly be applied to the first scenario. Both parties can work it out. The second act is forced. If I react (as I should as a Harmonium character) I MUST apprehend you for the crime and bring you in. If I ignore RP (and simply let the criminal walk), I'm no longer contributing to an RP Server and that is contrary to what we're supposed to be here. Being penalized for "forced" RP is wrong. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 01:23 PM Post #40 |
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The Hildmor trial was a farce. The main participants couldn't be bothered to make more than one post a day. It should have taken 2 days tops. Instead it took weeks because no one moderated it properly and the judge didn't reply in a timely manner. It ended up as a big joke. But know what? Charles (Hilds Lawyer) was drydocked the entire time the trial was on. I didn't bring him into the game during it. As proven, I am not against drydocking PC's for such situations. I support that... but exceptions need to be made. There needs to be room for that. Too many times criminal acts (in the city) force the RP of those who witness it. Either comply or ignore. One will penalize and the other goes against RP. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Aug 30 2013, 01:42 PM Post #41 |
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So RP/immersion only matters when when being "reactive" gotcha. I seem to remember seeingthat around a lot when there's nothing to do. Frankly I don't see why should the two sides be at OOC odds with each other rather than enjoy the cat and mouse play, or coming up with non-lazy means of roleplaying. If the villain invests time and effort only to be discarded instead of being celebrated for bringing intrigue to a day...Seriousky, most want conflict RP, yet mostly to solve it the most boring way fathomable? Not just that but to create conflict and intreague is rewarded by being tossed away and forgotten something is wrong in that OOC image to me.
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 01:53 PM Post #42 |
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You're forceing me to throw away the RP by being made to "choose" between risking the availablity of my character (through arresting him) or ignoring the criminal act to avoid risking availablility to my character. A catch 22 for the Harmonium. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Aug 30 2013, 02:23 PM Post #43 |
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And I believe you chose to play a Harmonium because of the time they spend to lawful matters, that still hasn't changed. I'm just making them more in par of the rights of the villains... it is same for them too now also. It also makes people more concious about the other players feelings, because they're likely as keen on prolonged inactivity yet something that can be solved by communication. When you have something to lose as well, you'll be more willing to negotiate about conditions.
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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| Darkrob | Aug 30 2013, 02:34 PM Post #44 |
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It makes people more concious about the rights of others? It gives the villains rights? What about my right to not have to deal with someone who suddenly decides to set off a bomb in the market for kicks? Don't I have a right to continue playing my character as I might currently be doing at the time (and as a proper Harmonium character)? Way I see it, I have two choices. 1: Play the Harmonium and arrest the criminal (risking temporary access to my character). Forced to lose access (being punished) for reacting in a proper RP way to the actions of an individual who "did not ask to include me". 2: Ignore the event, pretend it didn't happen (to ensure my character is not taken out of play due to the actions of an individual who "did not ask to include me". The first choice is the proper choice (in an RP sense) but penalizes me if the crime is too sever for immediate release. The second choice goes against RP but is my only choice if I want immediate access to my character. The rule, as it is written, is flawed. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Aug 30 2013, 02:45 PM Post #45 |
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You also have a right to not play a harmonium member if it is such a big deal. |
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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gotcha. I seem to remember seeingthat around a lot when there's nothing to do. Frankly I don't see why should the two sides be at OOC odds with each other rather than enjoy the cat and mouse play, or coming up with non-lazy means of roleplaying. If the villain invests time and effort only to be discarded instead of being celebrated for bringing intrigue to a day...
yet something that can be solved by communication. When you have something to lose as well, you'll be more willing to negotiate about conditions.

12:29 AM Jul 11