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Roleplaying Imprisonment/capturing
Topic Started: Aug 29 2013, 08:10 PM (1,679 Views)
Mr_Otyugh
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And this is reason why I never feel like there's any fun to be had after being captured by law and bring up the question... why should anyone ever play anything that would break laws? Because quite frankly I'm not seeing it, especially if the opinion is that if I'm captured, I'll just suck it up and start all over despite having done no permanent harm to anyone ever. I'm sure it's going to be super much fun when everyone are law abiding :P it's fine they're punished left and right, but hell no... there can be absolutely no difficulties trying to deal with them.
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Midnight
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If they do it correctly they might not get caught. Look at it another way. You think up your devious scheme. You execute it perfectly and then.... well then nothing no one wants to investigate because if they do it right they might actually catch you and then their character is out of action until everything is dealt with. Thats not much fun either.
Partial Character list:
Annia Jahram (Retired)
Jentia Snyden (Retired)
Rania Dias (Mercykiller Tracker)
Elliana Wettel (Godsman Smith)
Caterina Arnders (Fraternity Judge)
Emila Valios (Dustman Factor)

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Agony_Aunt
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Darkrob,Aug 30 2013
07:18 PM
A quick resolution? The scenario I used told of setting a BOMB off in the MARKET. A vastly crowded PUBLIC area full of CIVILIAN shoppers and FAMILIES. In what universe can that be settled in a matter of minutes with the terrorist merrilly going on his way? There are more people than just the PC's in the market. Dozens of civilians would die. That's a capital offence... not a fine offence.

Seriously? You want to exonerate those types of criminals with a sever talking to and pat on the head? Really?

Not in my RP world, thank you very much. That character, in that situation, deserves nothing short of incarceration pending trial. Bottom line. The rule does not allow exceptions for such things.

Rob, you are completely missing the point same as you did with the point about the Isen Daris demi-plane. Yes, the Hildmor trial was a farce, i wasn't pointing at that, i was pointing to the solution (that we actually achieved by OOC talk with Reptilier before announcing - and yes, it didn't work too well in the long run, but thats a separate matter).

I am talking about talking with the player to make a quick OOC resolution, so IC activities can continues.

It does not have to be interrogation RP that lasts weeks via the forums. It does not require the character to be locked up for years (or even days) of real time.

Seek a solution that works for the situation. A punishment that fits the crime, and gets past the whole tedious business of interrogation and trial (if required) quickly. Certainly do not block a person from RPing ever. There should always be a way forward.

So, they are found guilty, they are locked up... you are happy with that? Every time someone tries to play a criminal, lock them up? Make them start again? That will get boring very quickly.

I don't think we have it as a rule in any way here, but a personal rule of mine as a DM is that there should always be a choice open to the characters. A way out. Perhaps not always obvious, but its there.

Give the criminal a chance to escape. Seriously. Or send them to jail and let them escape from there. Or find some other way. Try and convince them to turn, become an informer. Make it interesting instead of boring!

Most of all, get past the idea that if playing as Harmonium you must "win". You don't have to win at RP. Winning at RP ends the game. You can win all you want running in circles around Carceri (or getting squished as often happens to me). RP is about the story. Everyone who participates positively to the RP is a winner anyway. Let things happen, let stories unfold, instead of trying to squash them with a meaningless victory.
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Darkrob
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Midnight,Aug 30 2013
04:43 PM
If they do it correctly they might not get caught. Look at it another way. You think up your devious scheme. You execute it perfectly and then.... well then nothing no one wants to investigate because if they do it right they might actually catch you and then their character is out of action until everything is dealt with. Thats not much fun either.

This.

I imagine it will get awful boring for the criminals if every time they do something, everyone else simply says "sorry. It didn't happen as far as I'm concerned. Have a nice day" and then are completely ignored so folks don't lose access to their characters.

Yeah... that'll be real fun for them.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Darkrob
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Agony, I know what you're saying, I really do. I'm not always an a$$hole. Sometimes I let stuff like this slide because it's just too much bother to deal with. This, however, is a rule that does not openly state the chance for exceptions. Simply add that. There will be exceptions depending on the circumstances of the scenario. These will include those issues (criminal acts) that must require DM's to sort out. Very serious acts. Acts beyond the responsibility of your average Notary.

That's all it'll take. Then everything will work fine.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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Agony_Aunt
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Midnight,Aug 30 2013
07:43 PM
If they do it correctly they might not get caught. Look at it another way. You think up your devious scheme. You execute it perfectly and then.... well then nothing no one wants to investigate because if they do it right they might actually catch you and then their character is out of action until everything is dealt with. Thats not much fun either.

If the player did it perfectly, then they can be investigated no problem. Unless someone metagames, you shouldn't be caught.

But you can also make mistakes... Sigil is a crazy chaotic place. The character may not get caught anyway.

But if they do get caught, ill say again... who is stopping your character from getting back to their RP? Not the criminal. He wants to get it out of the way as soon as possible. Only you are blocking your own return to other RP. Only if both sides are really interested in RPing an interrogation/trial then it needs to be so... and then, why would you complain about not being able to RP with others?

I'm beginning to think people really don't understand what the new rule really entails. Perhaps it needs some rewording. But bedtime... so perhaps, if this thread is still going back and forth come tomorrow, ill post up some examples of how things can quickly move forward, with all sides happy about the results.
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Agony_Aunt
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Darkrob,Aug 30 2013
07:50 PM
This.

I imagine it will get awful boring for the criminals if every time they do something, everyone else simply says "sorry. It didn't happen as far as I'm concerned. Have a nice day" and then are completely ignored so folks don't lose access to their characters.

Yeah... that'll be real fun for them.

That's not what is being suggested at all!
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Mr_Otyugh
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Pfft, yes they will investigate and likely even go as far as to arrest the person. I'm too much of a realist to assume this makes all the Hardheads lie down or turn their eyes to the other way all the time. It's the same people whom are discouraged of playing a real villain that might be turned off, because then at least sometimes that RP requires a personal sacrifice to see through. Likely think a bit more than arrest whatever they feel like though, not to mention investigate and gather evidences and follow leads properly as well as anything they can pin on the person instead of hazy hearsay that they might be the guy/gall. Because once you have all the evidences it's really a quick process to put through.

And at the other side give more possible time to react or even fabricate evidences as to remove credibility of the case. Rather than sneak-attack arrest and well.. bye bye as is the case at the moment.

Villain will always get caught inevitably, there's no "won't get caught" other than cease playing or abandoning villainous ways before the secret is out.
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Agony_Aunt
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Darkrob,Aug 30 2013
07:54 PM
Agony, I know what you're saying, I really do. I'm not always an a$$hole. Sometimes I let stuff like this slide because it's just too much bother to deal with. This, however, is a rule that does not openly state the chance for exceptions. Simply add that. There will be exceptions depending on the circumstances of the scenario. These will include those issues (criminal acts) that must require DM's to sort out. Very serious acts. Acts beyond the responsibility of your average Notary.

That's all it'll take. Then everything will work fine.

There are exceptions to every rule. Do we need to start listing every situation for every rule?

For example, there are times our anti-muling script triggers informing us of a muling event. We check it out, and yes, actually, it falls into one of those areas that the general rule doesn't cover. Are we assholes and say "No! You muled, you are busted!" or do we say "Ah, right. Yeah, that's cool"?

And i know you're not always an ***. Same way i'm not always and ***. And we can both be argumentative sods. :D

If you find it to be one of those situations, its time to bring in a DM for a judgement.
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Midnight
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I think it gives free reign for people to play criminal/chaotic types with no fear of consequence.

If you think of some way of capturing them then you must arrange a way for them to escape, or you lose your character for a period of time even if they are involved in other rp. This in turn makes things worse for everyone involved in any of the other rps my character is involved in.

Although I am aware things may not go my characters way all the time sometimes I'd lile to feely character has acheived a goal.

This way even if I win. I lose.
Partial Character list:
Annia Jahram (Retired)
Jentia Snyden (Retired)
Rania Dias (Mercykiller Tracker)
Elliana Wettel (Godsman Smith)
Caterina Arnders (Fraternity Judge)
Emila Valios (Dustman Factor)

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Mr_Otyugh
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Yeah, we're never going to get a mutual agreement at this rate. I'm gonna lock the thread for the day so we'll all get a break after the hours we've spent arguing in the internet. If you really want I can open it tomorrow again, but I think a recess is in order so that we can go play games, watch movies or do something fun without feeling like "our side is losing". And get back at it tomorrow in more negotiative terms.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Topic reopened and the main thread rebranded.

I will also no longer follow this thread, I've come to conclusion that I spent too much time on the subject already that it's objectively worth it.
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Midnight
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If there's no chance you'll change your mind then there's no point arguing about. I suppose we move on.
Partial Character list:
Annia Jahram (Retired)
Jentia Snyden (Retired)
Rania Dias (Mercykiller Tracker)
Elliana Wettel (Godsman Smith)
Caterina Arnders (Fraternity Judge)
Emila Valios (Dustman Factor)

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Agony_Aunt
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Midnight - we try to be a democratic server and do let players have a say in new things. But at the end of the day admins get final say.

And if you are thinking that this is just a case of DMs and Admins sticking together, let me assure you we have had some *cough* vigorous discussions on the DM boards at times.

Naturally I am always right and its those pesky admins who just fail to see things my way, but thats just the way the cookie crumbles. ;)
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Darkrob
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It appears, that during the rebranding, things were added to allow for extenuating situations. Such as being able to hand over the prisoner to a third party to deal with should the crime require longer holding.

Unless I've misread it (the damn hover over tool never lasts long enough for a proper read), this I can live with.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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