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| Need Some Help With A Good Bard Build; Building | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 2 2013, 09:03 PM (776 Views) | |
| Licca | Sep 3 2013, 09:32 PM Post #16 |
Blood
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Without EDM, you're not going to be doing much damage, and it doesn't solve the problem of a low AB. |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Tomekk | Sep 3 2013, 09:55 PM Post #17 |
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Dark Soul
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Except Bard does give you flat damage and AB with Inspiration, Arcane Archer gives you flat damage and AB and Manyshot stacks those up. Not to mention Haste, Greater Heroism, Greater Magic Weapon... It's a support class, not a DPS. EDM is really boring and you need RDD to make it effective. (It can be done without, but it will strain you build incredibly and that won't work without fighter levels for the extra combat feats) Also, without Blackguard, it's not really worth investing into as a Bard, not to mention the lack of AB to support power attack, low HP and medium armor doesn't really benefit that path. |
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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| Licca | Sep 3 2013, 10:17 PM Post #18 |
Blood
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I can understand why people would think EDM is boring (especially because it involves the infamous bard/RDD combo that people love using)... but without decent damage (and 10-15 points of damage per attack is not decent damage)... I wouldn't even play the character because I would have to stick to low-leveled areas because my character cannot deal enough damage to effectively take out higher-leveled mobs. The flat damage from AA and the bard inspirations simply aren't enough to overcome the sheer increase that EDM gives. Now, granted there's roleplay, and that's not really addressed in this thread. I still don't really understand why bards have to be nonlawful either.... |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Tomekk | Sep 3 2013, 10:19 PM Post #19 |
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Dark Soul
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Bows give a lot more than 10-15... and you're still a support, I don't see why high damage is that important for you. Requiem does AoE sonic which cannot be resisted by ANYTHING, but hey there's always the cleric.
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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| Ravel's Heart | Sep 3 2013, 11:21 PM Post #20 |
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Except Energy Immunity. |
| "What can change the nature of a man?" | |
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| Licca | Sep 3 2013, 11:55 PM Post #21 |
Blood
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That's if you're lucky enough to get an enchanted bow and enchanted ammunition. |
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- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry! - Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots." *giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles* | |
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| Ravel's Heart | Sep 4 2013, 02:00 AM Post #22 |
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One of my longstanding pet peeves about NWN2 is the inclusion of two evil and two non-good PrCs with no good equivalents, especially given that Assassin and Blackguard are pretty nice classes, and that the only non-evil PrC, Harper Agent, is pitiful. Ah, well. |
| "What can change the nature of a man?" | |
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| Agony_Aunt | Sep 4 2013, 03:15 AM Post #23 |
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Get a Life
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Not so good as a buffer, but as I said, a support character. The auras really do wonders for a party. And yes, Requiem is worth it. I've seen a pure Bard in action in Carceri. It was awesome. The main thing is, you really do need to party playing one. Going solo is not so viable. |
| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| Tomekk | Sep 4 2013, 10:52 AM Post #24 |
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Dark Soul
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Doesn't GMW enhance the bow? Either way, AA enhances your arrows up to +5, and that stacks with the bow's enhancement bonus, so, there, you're doing a flat 10 to AB and damage, not counting the bard bonuses, elemental damage, etc. Compared to the fact that you don't have to get in melee range and can cast spells that'll turn anyone into a killing machine, that's not a bad damage output. |
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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| Tomekk | Sep 4 2013, 10:56 AM Post #25 |
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Dark Soul
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Blackguard = evil Paladin. Although Paladins get Turn Undead one level later, count as a base class... and Blackguard doesn't get any extra smites or fear immunity.
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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| Agony_Aunt | Sep 4 2013, 12:32 PM Post #26 |
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Get a Life
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Blackguard != Evil Paladin. Evil Paladin = Paladin of Tyranny || Paladin of Slaughter
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| Stepped down as admin, but still lurking. | |
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| cryptc | Sep 4 2013, 12:41 PM Post #27 |
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Advisor
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And all three are really pretty terrible in D&D... I liked it best in an old D&D 2nd edition book I have where there was a discussion about anti-paladins (this was before any of those three above), I paraphrase "Paladin is a soldier of good ideal that fights hordes of lesser evil monsters, it doesn't translate well into a mirror opposite. Evil doesn't hold to ideals in the same way" Fallen paladin can make an interesting villain, but making standard classes and prc's for it really waters down the concept (same way half-orcs and half-elves have been watered down from being something rare) |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| MadPorthos | Sep 4 2013, 03:53 PM Post #28 |
Playtesting Gremlin
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Whilst I agree those "classes" don't really translate well and that perhaps there is something to the why you have posited, that evil doesn't hold to ideals... I could suggest another way of looking at the paladin and anti-paladin thing. Just saying hey, I'm good and I believe in the gods and goodness and having faith is not enough to be a paladin. The paladin of DnD has actually become something. He isn't just sticking to or emulating an ideal or following rules... his powers are not a reward from having all his ducks in a row and saying his prayers every night... if anything that might be a priest, cleric and even then, there's something more. In some way, a paladin isn't simply striving for an ideal...he by nature, upbringing, virtue IS that ideal. That's why a paladin is so uncompromising even in the face of another's logic. That logic that says maybe they should not pursue a villain, or right a wrong because it's too risky RIGHT NOW might be listened to by a smart, sane and wise paladin, but it does not change the fact that he still knows in his heart what should be done and will strive to do it according to his creed. When paladin's are subverted, made to fall by fiends, it's generally epic and momentous because those fiends managed to take those with ideals but find some flaw or short coming that gradually twists them to the point of actual change, transgression, despite thier inner nature, inclination and better judgement. But again, the paladin doesn't just act or "perform" the ideal like a role he performs in turn for the nifty powerz, he is that paragon. By this same light, a paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny really is a brutal killer or a tyrant, likely because he embraces the point of view that some dark powers value, be it murder, bloodshed, war, slaughter for it's own sake... or absolute rule, law and obedience to power in the case of Tyranny. I don't think necessarily that a villain goes hey... I'm gonna be as mean and brutal as I can so some power can give me bad mojo kudos for my villiany. They are not sticking to an ideal. They are that thing embodied. Just like it should be extremely hard to turn or corrupt a paladin, such anti-paladins should be pretty much irredeemable and thier behavior isn't a choice or code they are following to get thier powers... rather I'd say the dark powers that be like what forces these anti paladins are in the world and so bolster them that more of what they want in the world can occur. The anti-paladins would do exactly as they are doing if they were simply brutal fighters, clerics following a god who's creed of absoulte tyranny suited them or the like. Again, it's no ideal they are necessarily embracing or needing to follow, to them it's who they are. I've seen these anti paladin's poorly played, by people who want to be a villain, but a surviving villain who has friends and allies. Too often even a decent attempt at such is turned on and off like a spigot... the character will talk of the unspeakable things they did perhaps, but not do such around thier "friends" or "allies" cause that might get them ganged up on. Or perhaps they'd try to present themselves as sort of a Darth Vader, but without actual power in a setting, it's a bit hard to come across as a tyrant, but perhaps you would always be seeking to become the leader/ruler of your fellow players. Regardless, too often the anti paladin's DO fail as a roleplaying avenue for any pc because they are not conducive to group play. An npc villian yes, a solo pc that's believable and keeps working in groups...not so much. But hey, I digressed. Sorry, far afield from Bard. |
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| MadPorthos | Sep 4 2013, 03:55 PM Post #29 |
Playtesting Gremlin
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Unless they changed it, GMW only effects melee weapons. Never got it working on a bow, crossbow, etc. |
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| Tomekk | Sep 4 2013, 06:00 PM Post #30 |
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Dark Soul
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The class does almost exactly the same in terms of this build, pls no ideological debate.
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"From the realms below we ride, And in terror they run and hide, From the shadows of old we rise, Awakened, from the dark! Over the ancient ruins we fly, Where the old kings go to die, And the new kingdoms rising high, Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!" | |
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