Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Direct Connect: scod.game-server.cc
NWN List
Announcements
Welcome to the forums of Sigil: City of Doors. | New update 5/28/18 - read the update notes here!
Welcome to Sigil: City of Doors. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Multi-Quote Post on Multi-Quote Post off
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Excellent Additional Faction Information; Bonuses as well
Topic Started: Oct 25 2013, 04:39 PM (450 Views)
Midnight
Member Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I have a theory: the ideologies of the factions are difficult to understand. Its very difficult for people to roleplay an entropy crazed doomguard for example because that is just not how most people think (I hope.) The concept of law and order though is quite easy to understand. Conversly once you understand something, understanding its direct polar opposite is quite easy too. That is why I think the triad has the most players followed by the Anarchists and the indeps.
Partial Character list:
Annia Jahram (Retired)
Jentia Snyden (Retired)
Rania Dias (Mercykiller Tracker)
Elliana Wettel (Godsman Smith)
Caterina Arnders (Fraternity Judge)
Emila Valios (Dustman Factor)

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MadPorthos
No Avatar
Playtesting Gremlin
Tester
There is another factor in the popularity or lack thereof of factions... it's tied to what we see in terms of who is already in particular factions, but it's also tied to the favor given by DM's and event masters. By favor I'm not entirely implying favoritism, or trying to raise a cry of unfairness, merely describe what occurs.

Players see a number of storylines that are interesting, revolving around NPCs and characters of one or two factions, possibly interacting. Perhaps it's the same DM running the plot or storyline, or a Dm and an EM interacting. Players create characters so that they can be involved with the DM/EM plot and by populating this plot remain in contact with DM/Em's and a dynamic story. Meanwhile, those generally self sustaining themselves in their interpersonal roleplay may, or may not become involved depending on what the DM/Em's have in mind... often not wanting too many involved or else things can become unmanageable.

Some of those peripheral characters seeking DM/Em assistance to running thier own goals or stories sometimes seek to interact with these DM/Em's plotlines, with the intent of subverting them to thier own goals... that is to say, for example if I'm a independent, free league wizard who's been trying for two years to create my own astral ship, I might try to get my way by involving myself with a plot, playing a role in it and then interacting with the DM NPCs to get the resources and dm backing to make the story happen that I get my astral ship/access to nifty ship locations so that everyone else can now recognize me as the Archmage Captain Jack Marrow. This does happen. Seen it, not exactly like that but yeah.

So rather than factions becoming populated and shifting around, it really seems more or less that alot of times the activity goes where the DM/Em interest is, rather than any DM/Em's necessarily saying hey, it's time for Free League month. Yes, I know we have a calandar with theme days on it, not sure that means anything.

An example of this attention thing seemed to come up a few years ago, around Reptiller. I know, he eventually got an infamous ban or such. But in the course of his Bergimon Fellblade and Hildimor D'Kridis characters, I saw consistent involvement by him in DM plots and steering of those plots. I also saw that because naturally DM's like a receptive crowd of listeners/players, the attention and favor often rested with those engaging in these plotlines. At one point, there was a lot of activity in the Fraternity of Order, tied to Hildmor being a lawyer, before his legal difficulties. Then when his antics got him in trouble, he left and "joined" the Free League.

In short order, even though the established Free League characters did not run any sort of mafia or syndicate, the Free League was synonymous with the Syndicate and even another term, the Cartel. Darkrob, that Cartel might actually be you now that I think of it, but Hildimor was claiming it as part of his thing and that you were managing his affairs of the Syndicate as his legal issues mounted... you as in your Charles Goodman character.

Anyhow... while it's good that Sigil as the City of Doors server can bend and break off of what people might strictly feel is how the faction works, I didn't really see how the Syndicate was the Free League...yet for a while it was being treated as that way, even with implementation of faction badges and ranking being proposed for them. Others who had played free leaguers more in keeping with what they read and understood of the League, as more of a non joiners club, who still talked, maybe worked together and tried to watch out for each others's interests were rather penalized or harrassed when they didn't recognize the other free leaguers of the syndicate who of course, ranked them since they were being active with someone DM/Em related... or at least in roleplaying were being declared higher ups.

Now these Free Leaguers were free to remain seperate, not jump into that criminal enterprise that was the syndicate and they did... this includes my own leaguer characters... but it seems really rare to see any DM/Em involvement with the supposedly subtle network of the League that's inferred in Planescape source material. As I even heard Er Nano say recently, the Free League is the Lazy League, because it can't be bothered to do anything on behalf even of it's members or staking it's supposed concerns out.

This probably applies to a good number of other factions too. If the faction has a few members and enough source material to catch the whim of DM's and Ems it may prosper in numbers, entertainment value and reputation. Otherwise it languishes. As Tomekk rightly points out, no amount of mechanics will change that, and the only way that these advantages of the various factions manifest otherwise, is through DM's and EM's respecting and manifesting these advantages in how plotlines work out, perhaps allowing that if Fraternity of Order members are in trouble, politically or even somewhat legally, they may have great deal of legal backing, due to the order not wanting to lose face... an army of lawyers is not about to let the Harmonium just arrest one of them on trumped up charges, unless they're the ones trumping.

In the case of the Free League, the resources of a very wide and disparate group of individuals tends to result in support and aid to actual members and notables when they're in trouble, be it with the law or in need of knowledge, finding things and the like. Always I've seen that represented very well by DMs running planescape in pnp and a few rpga situations, with the free league being sort of like having a friend in every port and an ear on the street. With this missing, it's really no wonder players will slide to playing factions that seem to have very visual perceptions of power evident all around, like the Harmonium. Who wouldn't want to play cop when all the red armored guards walking around are the most noticeble NPCs in the Baazar?

But I digress. Main thing, faction benefits not particularly feasible.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Darkrob
Member Avatar

Admin
Well written :)

The Syndicate and Cartel used the Free League (and still does) as simply a tool. It was, essentially, the easiest group to tie into in order to draw as many players into the fold as possible and still use a faction for the game. The free league is (in my view) nothing more than Apathetic Anarchists. It permitted us the use of information networks and other IG tools that could be associated with the group. It would have been simple enough to just be freelancers but we wanted to incorporate the Factions in some way.

Both organizations (Syndicate and Cartel) do still exist in some form... but with most of the original members having moved on... it seems like playing a former shadow of itself when we try, hehe. Oh to bring back Hild, Raven and the other schemers... would be sooo much fun. Viva La Cartel! :)

Anyhow... You're very correct where you say people gravitate to where they see the most activity. I do it as well. The Triad gets the most love from EM's/DM's so that's where people will gravitate to. It's only natural.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Selebius
No Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I have to disagree.

I tried to hold Taker events, Dustmen events and a Bleaker one. No response.

I think the Triad/Anarchists is just in the lucky position to have a few very active players- and active players mean we can do something for them ( or the DMs can do stuff for us Triad players :P ).

Setting up and planning a game is a lot of work- regardless if it is done here or in game. So naturally I invest my time only when I know it will pay off for me.

Read: I have players genuinely interested in playing.

So for everyone who wants some action- get active.
Do something on the faction boards- give us something to work with. It does not have to be another OMG! Lets save that plane! plot.

I like low powered stuff better (=low powered means here you get only what your character can do/has on his/her/its Character sheet) so I am up for even minor things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MadPorthos
No Avatar
Playtesting Gremlin
Tester
I hear and understand where you're coming from Selebius. As a very long time pnp DM, I've learned to cut my losses with plots and storylines that no one is picking up on. Why write or prepare for a path they'll never follow, why flesh out or seek to enact something for a group or in a place there is no one to engage with it. I imagine for NWN2 Dungeon Mastering and EM'ing it just has to be so similar to that, needing to set up NPCs, characters, monsters, challenges... then after your setup time, having to run it all... only to watch them catch on a minor detail of your plot and hang onto it like a Rabid Chihuahua, never getting onto the next part.

If you want to move things along and simply tell them, hey, this is a minor point... it's like Deus Ex-Machina, you're saying hey, you're incorrect to focus on that detail, and that makes them feel like they are being channelled down a track or funnelled down a decision tree, something that is never good in a story and too often badly handled in video games.

If you let them free reign, they may range so far afield that all your planning never gets used and you find your story or plot changing midway, because they are so focused on an area that you gave little planning to, but that now possibly will make an equally compelling story. Both extremes are no good of course.

But as much as you disagree with what I said, I need to come back at you with what I've seen work. Foreshadowing. I've been playing here since early 2010, really registered I think in feb-10, though I'd been logging in and playing in late 2009 I think. Didn't know there was a forum, just found a server I liked on the gamespy and followed the instructions I got to get in.

In the time I've been here, I think I've had maybe two or three evenings involved in DM events or sessions. Maybe that's alot, I tend to think it's a little. I tend to be able to entertain myself, and interact with other players making plot and ideas as we go along. But the times I became involved in things, they were good too and often they were foreshadowed. Events occured through out the server leading up to them and allowing enough players to know something interesting was afoot.

Whether it was anarchist bombings and infamous terrorists on the loose, or a dragon bursting out of a Lady's Ward Mansion, or a Mercenary Company guarding a group of Unseelie Nobles to enact a pact with Demon's on the verge of the Abyss, the sightings of the NPCs and events abound before the dates of actual events being run. They even were an annoyance at times. Seeing a vermin lord (Possessed by DM I think) walk into the Baazar, asking after mercenaries would definitely get the attention of old timers who can recognize that Vermin Lord, as well as newer folk who might just be looking for "work" and adventure.

Hearing of Undead beginning to attack Dustmen who normally do not need fear the enmity of the Undead would have more impact if the "mindless" undead around Sigil were occasionally behaving less mindlessly, going hostile or being seen to do things like property damage or CHASING a dustman, as if with intent to kill. References to a dustman being attacked in S.I.G.I.S., or on a faction board is not enough... players currently playing their Guvner who read the S.I.G.I.S. article won't necessarily break out their Dustman who they've not played in a year, just on that passing article. They might though if a small zombie horde shuffles through the Baazar with no evident rhyme or reason. Not like they can do violence there anymore, due to the PVP being switched... a definite mistake in my opinion, because as a central place of meeting, it also is very good as a central location for mayhem.

Anyways, I hope to see some of your events sometime. As a long time player, I've seen EM Sunshine on as a name for the player list/tell list, but never seen events or occurences nearby drawing me in. Even should events happen around me, especially in my higher level merchant characters, I have learned to stay out of the limelight... some DMs hate high levellers with large sets of skills or abilities trying to power through thier plots, yet others truly love low level difficulties and view thier plots as things which the more advanced characters would never be interested by. With actual respect to those views voiced to me by DMs, I don't intrude.

Now, EM's which you are one of a number now... are new here, relatively. I took a hiatus from NWN2 for about a year, just coming back a month or so ago. Main reason was real life, family crises and worries. I am back and playing and a long time back threw my own name in the hat for DMing or what eventually became EMing. I'm sure different EM's have different styles and the stuff I've recommended is perhaps unappealing to you. I'd try it though, may do so if I ever get to EM. Maybe I'll see how wrong it is here and now to try that. But the fact is, it worked at one time... for several DMs here. And those were the events I and a good number of other players here look back to and go, "Wow, that was awesome!".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ravel's Heart
Member Avatar

Dungeon Master (Emeritus)
Midnight,Oct 25 2013
01:14 PM
I think I am the only one and it is lonely. :P

That's how it should be! ;)



Agony_Aunt,Oct 28 2013
12:54 PM
Ravel is good at pulling McGuffins out of his ass...its a shame he doesn't touch factions.  And yes, boobies.

That is funnier when I put it together in one paragraph. ;)

It is a shame that I don't touch more boobies! :lol:


Selebius,Oct 28 2013
04:04 PM
It does not have to be another OMG! Lets save that plane! plot.

Hey! What's wrong with saving planes?

Pen has been saving a plane the size of a WalMart for more than a year now.

:rolleyes:

I never said she was good at it!



Anyway, factions interest some people, and I'm glad they do. As for me, I find people to be a lot more interesting than organizations. There are a lot of faction-related characters that I like, but it has nothing to do with their faction membership.
"What can change the nature of a man?"
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Selebius
No Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yep.

I fully agree with your last statement.

@MadPorthos.
Thank you for your lenghty response but I fail to see what you want to say there.

My point stands. Factions with active members are getting stuff and as they are interested in getting said stuff more is happening.

Your general insights and tips are well meant and I thank you for your feedback but I prefer to run things the way I do. Other people have other styles so I am sure you will find games better fitting your own preferences and playing style.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MadPorthos
No Avatar
Playtesting Gremlin
Tester
Someone who I was speaking with in ooc room after a server crash mentioned what they thought was a dustman plot being hinted at on the forums and Sigis I think, and that itmight be something they would bring thier dustman character out for if it was serious. The chatter and reply from others was that it lrobably was just minor flavor/story going on - not a plot. Your mention, Selebius of a dustman plot not followed up on made me think that was the plot you were referring to, evidently incorrectly.

My misunderstanding lead me to mentioning other ways I had seen to introduce certain plots such as the breaking of the deadpact or weirdness with the deadpact as examples. As is obvious now, just was me misunderstanding your comments about previous attempts with other factions than the triads being ignored.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Selebius
No Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The Dustman plot is very much alive and running at the moment.

A character willing to explore the truth behind the chatter and hints will always find my support.
The 'I might' and 'maybe if' crowd I cannot please however- nor do I want to.

It is a player's decision to join a plot, to get involved. This also shows me that it is worth the time I am going to invest in it.
To be frank if I had waited passively that someone asks me to join their plot my toons would have not involved in any games/plots at all. So become active, get involved.

When I run a game I run it with someone and not for someone- but that it me. As I said there are different styles of doing this so each to his/her/its own.

And now excuse me as I have to plan stuff for the terribly active and demanding Anarchist players. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Agony_Aunt
Member Avatar
Get a Life
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Selebius,Oct 29 2013
10:40 AM
This also shows me that it is worth the time I am going to incest in it.

Ok, i'm really not getting involved in that one! :D
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Selebius
No Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
*cough*

Good. So at least a few are really reading what I write. You get a cookie AA. :P

You too- you know who I mean. ;)


...and off to edit it. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Midnight
Member Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Selebius,Oct 29 2013
11:18 AM
*cough*

Good. So at least a few are really reading what I write. You get a cookie AA. :P

You too- you know who I mean. ;)


...and off to edit it. :P

You say I'm mean but I was nice and sent you a pm about it :P
Partial Character list:
Annia Jahram (Retired)
Jentia Snyden (Retired)
Rania Dias (Mercykiller Tracker)
Elliana Wettel (Godsman Smith)
Caterina Arnders (Fraternity Judge)
Emila Valios (Dustman Factor)

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Selebius
No Avatar
Factor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
But... but....I mean you are never mean!

Now shush, stop confusing me even more and enjoy your cookie! :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Licca
No Avatar
Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
Having one of the four or five active Sensate characters, I think the main reason why we don't appear as active as a faction is because playing a Sensate is a bit situational (for example, DarkArc's arena tournament, where a couple of us used it as a way to experience the sensation of cagefighting, and then a bunch of us had a nice long soak in the baths).

I don't think that you have to scream "I'M A SENSATE" to properly play one. Playing a Sensate works well with Deliria's and Ravel's DM events as well.
- Licca Lyricia - The sorceress of love and jewelry!
- Lucia Lyricia - "One good shot is better than peppering five bad shots."
*giggles* If you hearing giggling in the bazaar... *giggles*
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Learn More · Register for Free
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2