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Special Races: Bugs
Topic Started: Jul 7 2014, 01:37 PM (4,396 Views)
Xndar
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The Mechanus Cannon
Builders/scripters
Hey, so I checked IG to make sure that the Nymph AC issue wasn't just the Character Sheet lying, and it isn't. Spiders rolling a total attack roll of 8 (no crit) were hitting me when my AC should have been 25.
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Agony_Aunt
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Tomekk,Jul 8 2014
07:20 PM
Agony_Aunt,Jul 8 2014
07:06 PM
I'm currently thinking of just refreshing their creature weapons on level up.  Increasing DCs, increasing base damage, etc.  That should work nicely. A bit fiddly to implement but a better solution i think. Still need to look at it properly though.

You could also add an option to Styx to refresh it manually... and please make the DCs scale with something sane, and not CHA. :P

Haha. Not scale with CHA, but it can be modified by CHA. It perhaps could be made to scale with level. I did that with the Pixie sleep darts.
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Agony_Aunt
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Xndar,Jul 8 2014
07:30 PM
Hey, so I checked IG to make sure that the Nymph AC issue wasn't just the Character Sheet lying, and it isn't. Spiders rolling a total attack roll of 8 (no crit) were hitting me when my AC should have been 25.

Ouch! Thanks for the info. I did a little run earlier with a nymph and i wasn't certain but had that feeling.

This is going to be tricky to fix but will see what i can do.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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Danakir
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I'm glad to see possible solutions being bandied about. For what it's worth, the on hit properties decided to trigger (randomly and unpredictably) today. Except it was Daze instead of Paralysis.

o_O I don't know, AA. I just don't know.
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Agony_Aunt
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ManyFaced,Jul 8 2014
07:19 PM
Consider the following:

Remove creature weapons and instead add an NPC enchanter that can add these effects to existing gear, but would also tag the gear with your UMD script for their race; so that from that point forward no other race besides that character can use the item. Upgrading the enchantment with levels would be easy because the NPC would simply over-write the effects on the gloves.

It's possible to remove them as well, but I see that as being problematic.


The downside is that a player would be unable to resell their old gear, but it could be written off as being modified for that race. In fact, don't call it an enchanter but an armor refitter.

Open to exploit unless make it cursed as well so can't be transferred.

Wouldn't need to worry about old gear, mainly just grab the existing item and upgrade it. As long as the person hasn't been a complete pack rat so the inventory scan breaks then it would be ok i think.

The main loss then is ability to wear different gloves. For example, those +7 or +8 AB gloves which could be nice.... and those infinite stunning fist gloves (grrr.... feats on items are big a no-no. We really need to get rid of them).

But its a possible solution, will keep it in mind.
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Agony_Aunt
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Danakir,Jul 8 2014
07:34 PM
I'm glad to see possible solutions being bandied about. For what it's worth, the on hit properties decided to trigger (randomly and unpredictably) today. Except it was Daze instead of Paralysis.

o_O I don't know, AA. I just don't know.

Ah, i think you failed to read the description, or i failed to write it.

Ghouls have both!

They get three creature weapons, and which one they attack with gets chosen randomly.

Can't look at the moment but its something like two claws and a bite. The claws do paralysis and the bite does a disease, and i guess a secondary effect of that is a daze as well. Might have things a little mixed up.

IIRC, random chance of creature weapons is not quite 1/3 each (assuming 3 creature weapons), more like CW1 (35%), CW2 (35%), CW3 (30%) which are usually Claw/Claw/Bite but thats just words to the game engine, you can call them what you want.

What i would like to do in the future is modify the character sheet XML to actually display the name of each creature weapon instead of just the damage. Will look at that in the future though.
Stepped down as admin, but still lurking.
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ManyFaced
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Agony_Aunt,Jul 8 2014
03:38 PM
ManyFaced,Jul 8 2014
07:19 PM
Consider the following:

Remove creature weapons and instead add an NPC enchanter that can add these effects to existing gear, but would also tag the gear with your UMD script for their race; so that from that point forward no other race besides that character can use the item.   Upgrading the enchantment with levels would be easy because the NPC would simply over-write the effects on the gloves.

It's possible to remove them as well, but I see that as being problematic.


The downside is that a player would be unable to resell their old gear, but it could be written off as being modified for that race.  In fact, don't call it an enchanter but an armor refitter.

Open to exploit unless make it cursed as well so can't be transferred.

Wouldn't need to worry about old gear, mainly just grab the existing item and upgrade it. As long as the person hasn't been a complete pack rat so the inventory scan breaks then it would be ok i think.

The main loss then is ability to wear different gloves. For example, those +7 or +8 AB gloves which could be nice.... and those infinite stunning fist gloves (grrr.... feats on items are big a no-no. We really need to get rid of them).

But its a possible solution, will keep it in mind.

I actually meant adding them in addition to an existing pair of gloves. So, the stunning fists would be forcibly enchanted with the abilities and bonus damage of the creature weapon (though the 'no damage' portion would negate any physical damage added on). I know it's possible to exceed a server's set enchantment limit and the like, and I imagine an NPC could forcibly add those qualities to anything.

It could be cheap/free to modify them like this, and they could modify as many pairs as they wanted so they could swap them around normally (and get vs evil gauntlets). Only downsides would be filling up unenchanted slots and not being able to resell the equipment.

Also, I'm not sure what exploit there would be with this. If there's the UMD-hardcoded race check, even if a non-ghoul got the ghoul-gloves they couldn't equip them and gain the benefits. (I also imagine if there would be any specific equipment pieces that would be a problem, exclusions could be made for certain tags.)
"Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step."
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Agony_Aunt
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But if another lower level ghoul got the higher level ghoul gloves then they would be more powerful than they should be... unless i totally misunderstood your comment (highly possible... cognac night tonight).
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ManyFaced
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Choosy testers choose Jif.
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Agony_Aunt,Jul 8 2014
03:57 PM
But if another lower level ghoul got the higher level ghoul gloves then they would be more powerful than they should be... unless i totally misunderstood your comment (highly possible... cognac night tonight).

Oh, you're right there AA. I suppose a level check could be added, but then again... is there a big loss in that? Lowbies can luck into epic weapons that reduce the server's zones to a joke, I don't think slightly more DC would be harmful on the whole. The new races themselves have enough stats alone to force over any hump.

I mean, guess if they were made un-tradeable/sellable/droppable then it'd be less likely. But even then, what's the worst case scenario?

Generally I feel the good would outweigh any negatives with this implementation, a few extra damage really doesn't hurt anyone. :thumbs:


EDIT: Another alternative would be to simply have the muling script fire any time they changed hands and count such an exploit. Assuming it is a big issue.
"Can everyone try just, reading what the DM writes? I think that'd be a good first step."
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Rainbow Prism
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Did anyone mention problem with languages for new races?

It seems some races do not get the automatic languages they should get.

Hound Archons do not get Celestial for free? Ridiculous!
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Agony_Aunt
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Thanks for reporting, ill add that one. Probably just an oversight.
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Agony_Aunt
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Rainbow Prism,Jul 9 2014
05:49 AM
Did anyone mention problem with languages for new races?

It seems some races do not get the automatic languages they should get.

Hound Archons do not get Celestial for free? Ridiculous!

Did you make your hound archon neutral or evil? :rolleyes:

Only Good aligned outsiders get Celestial.
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Rainbow Prism
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I got lawful good paladin hound archon and I had to waste bonus language point to get the language my character must have. It's just wrong.
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Agony_Aunt
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Interesting, code says it should be granted. Ill double check it.

PS: Please tone down the tone of entitlement in your posts.

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Ridiculous!

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I had to waste bonus language point to get the language my character must have. It's just wrong.


Its quite clearly stated that these races are new and there will be issues. Report the bugs, lose the attitude.
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Tomekk
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Dark Soul
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Minor bug, but trolls don't have being Large mentioned in their description.

EDIT: Undead starting with 3 CON is bad. They shouldn't need to spend points and an expensive enchantment into it to nullify their HP gain as per the rules. I'd recommend bumping it to 5 and giving each of them a cursed +5 CON tattoo or feat. Also, Death Knight, as far as I know is Immune to Turning.
"From the realms below we ride,
And in terror they run and hide,
From the shadows of old we rise,
Awakened, from the dark!

Over the ancient ruins we fly,
Where the old kings go to die,
And the new kingdoms rising high,
Awakened, from the dark, dark slumber!"
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