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| Topic Started: Nov 3 2015, 07:14 PM (264 Views) | |
| shadowblizmasta | Nov 3 2015, 07:14 PM Post #1 |
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Every time people suggest buffs, it's brought up as a bad thing if anything even comes remotely close to the power of a cleric. Why? No really, why is it so bad if more options are as viable as clerics? What's wrong with there being other builds that exist aside from the ones based around clerics? I never get a straight answer to this, and people surely never suggest nerfing the options that are already at that power level, in fact they get buffs in the form of improving their less used spells, but then if the less used classes get suggested buffs, it's shouted down. Why? |
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Too many to list! So here are the ones I play a lot lately. Barrakasra - Wraith? Bard Kandra Blackhand - Humanish Monk of the Twin Oaks Z'ssadra Tharress - Pureblood Green Scholar Sskrassk - Lizardfolk Fiend Hunter | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Nov 3 2015, 07:24 PM Post #2 |
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Don't we have enough many of these topics already? No one argues that things are okay as they are, people are arguing how much of a buff is enough. And fully buffed cleric isn't going to be used as a standard into which everything should reach. If something is OP, it doesn't mean everything else needs to be 'buffed' into OP. I was intending to write some of my own suggestions today, but I'm just starting to get sick of hearing the same thing said over and over again "casters OP, we aren't, why?" enough to just revisit the idea some other day instead. World isn't collapsing on top of people so there's no need for urgent changes even if they are being attempted to shove down peoples throats currently.
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| cryptc | Nov 3 2015, 07:31 PM Post #3 |
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Clerics have a number of spells that allow them to become as good and better than warriors at fighting. This is unfortunate, but the way we've decided to balance clerics is by giving them no love at all, and hoping all the other options for other characters will see them get used even though clerics might in many cases be the more optimal choice. The alternative would been to remove half a dozen of the most used cleric spells, which we have decided is not the direction we want to go. |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| shadowblizmasta | Nov 3 2015, 07:36 PM Post #4 |
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You haven't ignored clerics at all. The new summons are still dangerously close to being more powerful, if not already more powerful than fighters alone, they got a new prestige class, and they got new domains. If you actually consider them to be overpowered, then bring them down in power if you don't want to bring things up in power. Nothing exists in a vacuum, you can't just ignore the problematic things. The majority of people play casters, or throw cleric into their builds because it's the most powerful option. Until things get to the point where other options are actually viable, it's not going to change. |
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Too many to list! So here are the ones I play a lot lately. Barrakasra - Wraith? Bard Kandra Blackhand - Humanish Monk of the Twin Oaks Z'ssadra Tharress - Pureblood Green Scholar Sskrassk - Lizardfolk Fiend Hunter | |
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| Mick64 | Nov 3 2015, 07:39 PM Post #5 |
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Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's hasn't been stated. It has. Many times. Short version because I'm kind of tired of writing out the long version : Just because one thing is OP doesn't mean we need to make everything OP. Also perfect balance is impossible to achieve without having 0 (meaningful) options, power creep is a very real thing to be wary of, bla bla bla |
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Scripter. Login: Electrohydra I play: Anything. Blue Slaad. Lots of things too. Countless, ever-changing alts. | |
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| Lucadia | Nov 3 2015, 07:43 PM Post #6 |
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I think..there is irony that if you want parade for new spells, summons was one of the new options we got. and no, they are not more powerful then a fighter. they are temporary and do not survive areas past the abyss even with buffs. I like how they are now, as its a renewable resource, and gives you a perk for taking more levels in one class or another. Well its making a choice if you are a mystic theurge anyways. Also..I dont think we should be concerned weather players are main stay casters or melee types. That could solely be player decision for rp. Shameless plug. Make a mage, join the Signers |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Nov 3 2015, 07:46 PM Post #7 |
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Yes, you've made your case. Still doesn't consent immediate random changes, and as I already mentioned, no one's particularly against some improvements, it's just matter of deciding what's enough and what's too much. Or we can just keep repeating the same things over and over again instead of spending time on something constructive. Some changes are easier to decide on, doesn't mean it's being away from other classes. And personally i'm still all for bringing summons down a notch, I did think they become a little too powerful for my comfort anyway. |
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| Lucadia | Nov 3 2015, 07:48 PM Post #8 |
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Not until you give arcanes some other utility you shouldnt. They make up for the damage the pc should be doing, you know, considering the absurd amont hit points everything has for your level and area. If it takes you five firebrands to take down the lowest of abyss mobs, they have too much. |
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| cryptc | Nov 3 2015, 07:58 PM Post #9 |
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As I've stated on several other threads, I'm aware the new summons were over-tuned, and that is being worked on. On behalf of the DM team I apologize for something a bit overpowered made it on to the server, now will you (players in general, not you specifically) please stop using it as an argument whenever there is disagreements on something. |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Nov 3 2015, 07:58 PM Post #10 |
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I'm not in disagreement on that. I'm equally concerned of the "blaster casters", there's a couple of routes to go at it. One of which is manual lowering of different saves in critters like was done in the Abyss (and yes, that's only reason why some spells work so incredibly well there, it was an experiment on my behalf to lower the base values and modify them. Dismissal was a hindsight though.) and the frost giants (which have manually lowered will saves to make mind-affecting spells more useful against them.), that would make any spells with DCs inherently more useful, just would need to learn which type and against which. Instead of lowering saves, there's also giving damage vulnerabilities to make some damage types more effective. I'm not saying 100% vulnerabilities either. Last is really lowering hit points which wouldn't be my preference as it just means everything kills it faster. Now you might consider buffing spells, nah, I don't think that's a good route either, then we get back to balance matters. And before I get another earful of casters being OP, it's generally the buffs more so than offensive spells. Take buffs away from a wizard and cleric and they aren't that impressive. |
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| MimiFearthegn | Nov 3 2015, 08:02 PM Post #11 |
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As the original question has been given the official answer, I think this thread has served its purpose. |
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