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Psionics
Topic Started: Jun 10 2016, 06:27 AM (1,136 Views)
Xndar
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The Mechanus Cannon
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Astral Construct takes PrC levels into consideration when determining scaling.
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Strawberry Jam
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Aslya,Jun 10 2016
04:02 PM
You never know, and it's not a trivial difference; if someone can look up the actual script, we'll know for good ! (and be able to rectify the wiki if need be)

True! =)

Tho I far corpse crafter and golem master is going to be better than astral construct even so.

Quote:
 
The +6 is from caster level 38, I've included the +3 from epic spell focus immediately after the epic bonus DC.

How do you raise your caster level to 38? :blink:

Typically mages don't raise their caster level, so it's probably a bug right? Actually raising manifester level over your max level is the special feature of psionics in pnp. =(
I like Ravenloft & dual wield pistols & physician base class & Psionics & Aberrations & character customization & Book of Exalted Deeds

Sorcery: Magi Kingdom of Magic
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Psionics: Fullmetal Alchemist
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Born2BeWild
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Strawberry Jam,Jun 10 2016
04:19 PM
How do you raise your caster level to 38? :blink:

you can make wizard with 40 caster lvl for evocation spells :P
Green Bean
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Mr_Otyugh
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Strawberry Jam,Jun 10 2016
07:19 PM
Quote:
 
The +6 is from caster level 38, I've included the +3 from epic spell focus immediately after the epic bonus DC.

How do you raise your caster level to 38? :blink:

Practiced Spellcaster bug and red wizard of thay focus.
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Whitefly
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;)
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level 20 wizard, level 10 enhanced wizardry specialist

Practiced spellcaster (wizard) adds 4

Enhanced wizardry specialist adds 5 for your chosen school

20 + 10 + 4 + 5 = 39 caster levels

Of course, it does thoroughly exploit the practiced spellcaster bug, which is why I haven't used it on any of my own characters, but that's the theoretical maximum. It's very effective as a human red wizard evoker on other servers, since it gives you unbeatable bigby checks.

Normally you'd run a level of shadowdancer with that, since you can drop to 38 and stay within the bracket for a +6 epic DC bonus.



As for psionics, I love the psion class to bits, but when you consider what other casters can do, they sacrifice a lot for their dynamicism and they're not really meant to have to sacrifice so much, it's just mechanical issues preventing psion DCs from rising as high as other class's DCs can.
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Born2BeWild
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Whitefly,Jun 10 2016
04:28 PM
20 + 10 + 4 + 5 = 39 caster levels

and +1 from fiendish power if you evocation red wiz
Green Bean
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Lucadia
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Using practiced spellcaster on this server is not an exploit. Most servers tell you cant take it if you pushes your cl above your hit dice. We dont have that restriction.
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Whitefly
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;)
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Born2BeWild,Jun 10 2016
04:32 PM
Whitefly,Jun 10 2016
04:28 PM
20 + 10 + 4 + 5 = 39 caster levels

and +1 from fiendish power if you evocation red wiz

Ooooh yea, you can take spellcasting prodigy and fiendish heritage both together as a human or strongheart halfling. I never realised that! Good catch B2BW! Too bad there's no necromancy version -.^
Moxie Anafara Angas, aka Ixsaea; delightful Xaositectiefling
Kismet Saljahasa; "really friendly" air elemental sort
Ravvi Beaconberry; adorable hin adventuress
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Pellease
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Awesome, thank you everyone for all the information! I'm thinking I may stay clear of psions haha
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Whitefly
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Naw, don't be like that, psions are good, they just have a few little issues here and there. They're definitely the most interesting class in the game.
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Kismet Saljahasa; "really friendly" air elemental sort
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rapsam2003
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Whitefly,Jun 10 2016
11:57 AM
Naw, don't be like that, psions are good, they just have a few little issues here and there. They're definitely the most interesting class in the game.

Which can be said of every class. No class is perfect. Neither should they be. It's about balance. No one class is going to be able to do everything.

@Pellease: Pscion is probaly still going to be fun. The idea of a Persistent World server is, of course, to encourage party play. So, by all means, join a party. That should make pscion fun for you.
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Strawberry Jam
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Whitefly,Jun 10 2016
04:28 PM
As for psionics, I love the psion class to bits, but when you consider what other casters can do, they sacrifice a lot for their dynamicism and they're not really meant to have to sacrifice so much, it's just mechanical issues preventing psion DCs from rising as high as other class's DCs can.

Yeah, I really love them too. =)

It's kinda a shame the way things bug out with wizard like that.

Psion has different types of feats in table top tho. You can find a few that increase their potency, and DC differently to mage. Also overchannel, and then improved overchannel. Like you're bleeding out of your eyes and ears as you double your manifester level, tho it effectively only works best if you can augment powers further.

Here are some neat feats in case anyone is wondering.

Quote:
 
Psionic Endowment [Psionic]

You can endow your manifestations with more concentrated focus.
Benefit

To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You add 1 to the save DC of a power you manifest.


Quote:
 
Greater Psionic Endowment [Psionic]

You can use meditation to focus your powers.
Prerequisite

Psionic Endowment.
Benefit

When you use the Psionic Endowment feat, you add +2 to the save DC of a power you manifest instead of +1.


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Power Specialization [Psionic]

You deal more damage with your powers.
Prerequisites

Weapon Focus (ray), manifester level 4th.
Benefit

With rays and ranged touch attack powers that deal damage, you deal an extra 2 points of damage. If you expend your psionic focus when you manifest a ray or a ranged touch attack power that deals damage, you add your key ability bonus to the damage (instead of adding 2).


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Overchannel [Psionic]

You burn your life force to strengthen your powers.
Benefit

While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage.

The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.
Normal

Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.


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Talented [Psionic]

You can overchannel powers with less cost to yourself.
Prerequisite

Overchannel.
Benefit

To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. When manifesting a power of 3rd level or lower, you do not take damage from overchanneling.


Quote:
 
PRACTICED MANIFESTER [PSIONIC]

Choose a manifesting class that you possess. The powers you manifest from that class are more powerful.

Prerequisite: Psicraft 4 ranks.

Benefit: Your manifester level for the chosen manifesting class increases by four. This benefit cant increase your manifester level higher than your Hit Dice. Even if you can’t benefit from the full bonus immediately, however, if you later gain levels of nonmanifesting classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

For example, a human 5th-level psion/3rd-level fighter who selects this feat would increase his psion manifester level from 5th to 8th (since he has 8 Hit Dice). If he later gained a fighter level, he would gain the remainder of the bonus, and his psion manifester level would become 9th (since he now has 9 Hit Dice).

A character with, two or more manifesting classes (such as a psychic warrior/psion) must choose which class gains the feat’s effect. This feat does not affect your powers per day or powers known. It only increases your manifester level, which helps you overcome power resistance and increases the duration and other effects of your powers.

Special: You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you choose it, you must apply it to a different manifesting class.


Quote:
 
PRIVILEGED ENERGY [PSIONIC]

You favor one specific energy type overall others.

Prerequisite: Ability to manifest the energy missile power.

Benefit: Choose one type of energy to become your privileged energy: cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. Any time you manifest a power that deals damage of your chosen energy type, that power deals an extra 1 point of damage per die.


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DAZZLING ENERGY [PSIONIC]

Your facility with energy is such that enemies are shaken by your prowess.

Prerequisites: Know energy missile power, Privileged Energy.

Benefit:When you manifest an energy power that specifies a single target in conjunction with your chosen energy (cold, electricity, fire, or sonic), the discharge of that energy is enhanced with a spectacular secondary visual or auditory display. The foe that you strike with the energy power is dazzled for 1 minute. A dazzled creature takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks. Sightless creatures are unaffected.


Quote:
 
IMPROVED MANIFESTATION [EPIC]
You can manifest psionic powers more powerful than the normal limits of manifestation.

Prerequisites: Ability to manifest powers of the normal maximum level in at least one psionic class.

Benefit: When you select this feat, your metapsionic power point cost limit is increased by +2. For example, if you select this feat at 21st level, you could use metapsionic feats in conjunction with other powers so that you could spend a total of 22 power points on any single power. However, to manifest the power, your key ability score must be equal to or higher than the total power point cost minus 2.

You must use this feat as a member of the class in which you can already manifest powers of the normal maximum level. For instance, a 5th-level psychic warrior/22nd-level psion couldn’t advance her power point cost limit in psychic warrior, because she can’t manifest powers of the normal maximum level for apsychic warrior. But she could advance her power point cost limit for her psion powers.

Additionally, you gain 19 power points when first taking this feat.

Normal:Without this feat, a power altered by metapsionic feats cannot cost more power points than the manifester’s level minus 1 (minimum 1).

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time this feat is gained, your power point cost limit is increased by an additional +2 and you gain a number of power points equal to your previous benefit + 2.


Quote:
 
IMPROVED METAPSIONICS [EPIC, PSIONIC]
You can manifest powers using metapsionic feats more easily than normal.

Prerequisites: Character level 21st, four metapsionic feats, Psicraft 30 ranks.

Benefit: Metapsionic powers you manifest cost 2 power points less than normal (to a minimum of 1 power point).
This feat has no effect on metapsionic powers that inflate the cost by only 2 power points.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects stack, though you can’t lower the cost of any metapsionic power to less than 1 power point.


Quote:
 
IMPROVED OVERCHANNEL[PSIONIC]

You burn your life force without limit to strengthen your powers.

Prerequisite: Overchannel, Psicraft 25 ranks.

Benefit:While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level to a value up to twice your actual manifester level, but in doing so, you pay a price. For each level you increase your effective manifester level above your actual manifester level, you take 2d8 points of damage. For example, a 23rd-level psion could increase his effective manifester level to 30th to manifest a particular power. However, as a result of the seven-level increase, he would take 14d8 points of damage.

The effective change in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, ns well as increasing all manifester level dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.

Normal: Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.
I like Ravenloft & dual wield pistols & physician base class & Psionics & Aberrations & character customization & Book of Exalted Deeds

Sorcery: Magi Kingdom of Magic
Spirit Shaman: Mushishi
Psionics: Fullmetal Alchemist
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Mr_Otyugh
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That's a pretty neat list and analysis on the psionic disciples, Whitefly. Think you might ever feel motivated on doing something larger scale to look into the other psionic powers? Because I've felt like there are some which are just not particularly useful during my testing, and something like that might help making them more useful.
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Strawberry Jam
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Mr_Otyugh,Jun 10 2016
10:48 PM
That's a pretty neat list and analysis on the psionic disciples, Whitefly. Think you might ever feel motivated on doing something larger scale to look into the other psionic powers? Because I've felt like there are some which are just not particularly useful during my testing, and something like that might help making them more useful.

I would say the list isn't entirely accurate. For example Repair Construct, you actually can't twin it, fully augmented it does little more than the base heal but costs 8 points instead of 1. Fully augmented at level 10 it heals about 20ish, at 20 it's 30ish, at 30 it's 40ish. By the time it has maxed out at 30, if you can ever get that high (ecl?) then the construct is usually taking more damage per hit but to reconstruct from scratch only costs 17 points in comparison. The repair also only benefits constructs, but it is easily outpaced by every single other heal, magic and kits, which also work just fine on anything including construct.

I'd say repair construct gets a 1/5 for those shortcomings.

Then Astral construct is dealt with as one, it is actually two powers, of course you replace it with the improved version, so you lose the first and for that I rate the first 0/5 because you only get 1 power at any time.

The improved version scales almost exactly as table top, compare the final form, for this I'll max hp rolls like in NWN2.

---D&D vs NWN2
AC 33 vs 34
hp 230 vs 200
ab 28 vs 33
str 43 vs 40
fort 6 vs 9
refl 6 vs 7
will 6 vs 6
dr 15/+1 vs 15/+1
grapple 38 vs knockdown
dmg 2d6+16(23) vs 2d6+21 (28)
speed 50ft vs normal nwn2 speed
reach 15ft vs (not sure, 5 due to fists?)

Now, it also does psionic attacks (about 3-4, not that amazing, dc 20) and comes with 31 spell resistance, by the time you get it at level 17 you can already give it 29 spell resistance yourself tho~~~

In table top the construct comes with 2 of your picks from menu C, some choice picks:
Rend: Deal extra 2d6+24 on full attack
extreme deflection: +8 deflection ac
blindsight: blindsight up to 60ft, no longer blind=useless
invisibility: permanent invisibility, even when attacking, can't be dispelled
damage reduction: 6 dr

A menu C pick can be exchanged for 2 menu B picks so 2 menu C for 4 menu B, some choice picks:
poison: fort dc 20, 1 constitution, 1d2 constitution
muscle: +4 strength
fast healing: 2hp/round
extra attack: as says

A menu B pick can be exchanged for 2 menu A picks, here is the best because of planar effects:
resistance: 5 energy resistance

Wotc also made menu D with improvements to other menus:
whitefire: 5d4 fire damage aura
heavy armor: +10 deflection ac
toughest: +5 hp per hd
super buff: 170 temp hp
extra hard carapace: 20/+3 dr

extra menu C options:
tail slap: constuct has tail, extra attack for 2d6+24
spike flurry: cone attack, everyone hit by 2d4 spikes, each spike does 1d6, reflex for half
hard carapace: 15/+2 dr
extoplasmic form: as power

extra menu B options:
stunning fist: construct can stun
poison touch: poison for 1d2 wis, 1d4 wis
improved critical: as feat
extra arms: more attacks
astral repair: 2hp/round

extra menu A options:
spiked armor: 1d6 piercing damage on some attacks
improved bullrush: knockdown attack
dodge: as feat
claws: 1d8+16 slashing damage
brawn: +1 damage per selection

This is not including feats that give extra menu choices, extra hd, multiple extra mini constructs (like pale master undead swarm) and classes that improve the construct specifically and award some of those feats.

Well that is all table top, but as you can tell the Sigil astral construct is only slightly better than the table one if you don't include menus, and a lil worse if you include menus. Obviously it's powerful in table top but other summons got improved here mostly with lots of class levels too, so the construct kinda lacks a lil. For 20+ areas everything shreds it and overcomes dr easily so it doesn't do much.

For these reasons I would review the improved construct power as 3/5 as it's okay but not amazing, and less so in 20+ areas where it dies too fast to do anything. If construction menus were added with some kinda UI it would be a huge improvement I think. You could get like 3 D's, or 6 C's or 12 B's or 24 A's as a maestro constructor. ^^;

I'd much rather see a single construct power and then http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm added as an onhit weapon/party buff with simulated bleed that bypasses any dr to replace the lost power. I would say fabricate, but I don't think there would be a mechanical use for it.

So as a main shaper I would say:
repair construct: 1/5 (heals are better, so is resummon)
astral construct 0/5 (only one real power is improved constuct)
improved astral construct 3/5 (room for improvement, especially on the high level area side, and resisting planar effects)

I haven't played the other disciplines much but I agree that clarience has the best utility out of all. I do think psyochoporter has use with wormhole tho, you can port a party to an archer's ledge quickly.
I like Ravenloft & dual wield pistols & physician base class & Psionics & Aberrations & character customization & Book of Exalted Deeds

Sorcery: Magi Kingdom of Magic
Spirit Shaman: Mushishi
Psionics: Fullmetal Alchemist
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Whitefly
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You can't twin it? I'm almost 100% certain that I remember twinning it. Maybe it got changed?
Moxie Anafara Angas, aka Ixsaea; delightful Xaositectiefling
Kismet Saljahasa; "really friendly" air elemental sort
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