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| Need Benchmarks For A Charisma Based Vampire | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 9 2016, 11:37 PM (242 Views) | |
| Azelle | Oct 9 2016, 11:37 PM Post #1 |
Prime
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Since my vampire's previous build was damaged severely by the change to the vampire template class, I'm going to need to rebuild and would appreciate some advice on what sort of numbers I need to reach in order to avoid being completely useless. So far, my first attempt at coming up with a build is: Base Race: Human Bard 15 Vampire (Path of the Dragon) 7 Shadowdancer 2 Blackguard 3 ECL 3 Does this build seem workable at all? The +40 AB seems like it might be a bit low, but I feel that access to curse song, mass curse of impending blades, greater heroism, and expose weakness has the potential to make up for that. The main concern I have is whether or not 46AC is going to be sufficient for the higher level areas. I could get it to 50 by switching to inspire defense, but it still sounds quite iffy, and drops the AB to +38, which is definitely too low. 16 (+6 Racial, +1 level up) = 23 (27) 11 (+2 Racial) = 13 (18) 13 (18) 12 8 16 (+2 Racial, +5 level up) = 23 (28) BAB: +22 AB: 22 BAB +9 Str +5 Enhancement +1 Epic Prowess +1 Weapon Focus +3 Inspire Courage = +41 AB AC: 10 (Base) + 6 (+3 Hide Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 6 (+5 Shield) + 5 (Natural Armour) + 5 (Dodge) + 5 (Deflection) +3 (Tumble) +1 (Luck of Heroes) +1 (Armour Skin) = 46 Saves: Fort: 12 base +4 con +5 resistance +9 cha = +30 Ref: 18 base + 5 dex +5 resistance + 9 cha = +37 Will: 12 base -1 wis +5 resistance +9 cha = +25 Bard 1 Bard 2 Bard 3 Vampire 1 Bard 4 Vampire 2 Bard 5 Vampire 3 Bard 6 Vampire 4 Bard 7 Vampire 5 Blackguard 1 Bard 8 Blackguard 2 Bard 9 Vampire 6 Blackguard 3 Bard 10 Vampire 7 Epic Levels Bard 11 Bard 12 Bard 13 Shadowdancer 1 Shadowdancer 2 Bard 14 Bard 15 Feats: 1: Luck of Heroes 1: Power Attack 3: Cleave 6: Dodge 9: Curse Song 12: Toughness 15: Mobility 18: Divine Might 21: Epic Divine Might 23: Epic Prowess 25: Expose Weakness 27: Armour Skin Vampire Bonus Feats: 3: Blind Fight 6: Alertness Equipment wise, the build is meant to be using the sword sage set. |
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| Mick64 | Oct 10 2016, 02:16 AM Post #2 |
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You can use a Heavy Shield on a bard since you don't really use in-combat spells, but mostly buffs. |
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Scripter. Login: Electrohydra I play: Anything. Blue Slaad. Lots of things too. Countless, ever-changing alts. | |
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| Pellease | Oct 10 2016, 02:57 AM Post #3 |
Greybeard
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Not to sidetrack, but what got changed with vampire? Also. . . from my experience last night I was in the first area of the Gran Abyss (Don't know if there are more? The place that starts with P.) I had 45 AC and wasn't getting hit all the time, but I was definitely on the weaker end of our party and needed everyones help. It did help that I had 6 attacks going that mainly hit and did a far amount of damage. So it's somewhat doable, but I'd at least try and hit 50. Getting into the 50s is what took Frank from being the team liability to a decent buffer who could lend support. |
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| Azelle | Oct 10 2016, 03:53 AM Post #4 |
Prime
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Vampire used to only have one racial class that resembled the path of the wolf, and that had its primary bonuses in strength. As a result of the change, she ended up being put on the wolf path that had far less strength, which meant that she couldn't reasonably qualify for epic divine might anymore. Additionally, as a result of the old vampire class being skill focused, I ended up going with a more martial focus with 7 blackguard progression and only 8 levels of bard because of how hard to come by AB was. With the changes, I end up needing to go through the path of the dragon to meet the stat requirements, and as a result, much more bard heavy in order to retain a similar skill set while still qualifying for epic divine might. If I were to give up on the sword sage set, I could replace the underwhelming sword sage armour with +5 mithril chainmail, and as was suggested, use a +5 heavy shield, which would increase her AC by 5 up to 51. The problem of course being, I would need to give up the sword sage set, and I'm not sure that her offense would be powerful enough without it. 17-20/x3 criticals are quite a big deal, and the 4 points of vampiric regeneration is not only fitting, but also probably helpful for surviving. Would the +4 AC be valuable enough to justify the lower damage, or alternatively, are there any weapons that effectively compete with the set? One thing that I could consider would be to drop charisma to 21, boost strength to 25, taking my AB to +39 pre-Bardic inspiration, then, use inspire defense instead of inspire courage in order to get to 51AC. The damage loss would be... -3 from not using the inspiration, and -2 from lower charisma (offset one point for increased strength) for -4 total, but that's probably justifiable in exchange for the sword saint set bonus. My main concern about dropping charisma though are the domination save DC and her own saving throws. A DC of 31 seems like it would be quite easily resisted, and her will save is already quite low at only +25, dropping it to +24 seems very dangerous. |
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| Ceremorph | Oct 10 2016, 06:32 AM Post #5 |
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
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You had full bard casting, where was your Greater Heroism for +4 to attack? You're definitely going to want to use the inspire defense (although taking combat expertise could give you that choice as well). Another thing to remember with a bard is that the bonuses you give to your party members, particularly in a larger party, are actually more important to overall success than your one-on-one combat ability. You're just as valuable in the back and invisible as you are on the front lines if you need to be protected and/or raised regularly. Truly, bardic progression is included for this build, but it's not really optimal because of how Bard really hits its stride when you're taking epic bard levels and have requiem and legionnaire's to use. |
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We rode on the winds of the rising storm, We ran to the sounds of the thunder. We danced among the lightning bolts, and tore the world asunder. | |
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| NuBahamut | Oct 10 2016, 03:06 PM Post #6 |
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Cutter
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Does that mean, generally, racial PRCs are a poor choice for bards? |
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| rapsam2003 | Oct 10 2016, 03:15 PM Post #7 |
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No, it means that it's a tradeoff. RPrCs are quite powerful. Epic bard levels are quite powerful. In order to avoid things being ridiculously OP, there's the tradeoff that you don't get to advance all class features. |
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The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher
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| Ceremorph | Oct 10 2016, 11:51 PM Post #8 |
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Dark Mistress of the Toolset
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Firre is a good choice for bards now that the progressions are fixed, but only because music is integral to that being. Otherwise, yeah, you're running out of levels. Really, anything that insists upon over 20 levels in a base class to gain abilities (monk, ranger) is going to miss out on its capstone when combined with a racial PrC... leaving you the choice of stopping before the PrC's ultimate level if you want things like Requiem or Bane of Enemies. |
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We rode on the winds of the rising storm, We ran to the sounds of the thunder. We danced among the lightning bolts, and tore the world asunder. | |
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