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Bleigh. Going Nuts With Spirit Shaman
Topic Started: Dec 18 2016, 02:50 PM (653 Views)
Whitefly
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It's true that it's a heavy investment, but if you're investing into strength and charisma anyway, it's often good to grab it. Personally I think Divine Shield is a greater offender than EDM. By grabbing one extra level of cleric, sorcerers and warlocks can net themselves well over +10 extra AC. It's feasible to get +18 AC at maximum with a succubus, since you can grab the luck domain as a level 1 cleric too. It's insane that one class level can net you +18 AC.
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Ceremorph
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Only problem with EDM is that there would be much screaming and gnashing of teeth if we were to make it require more divine-ness to get. Far too many characters (particularly warlock and bard builds) have builds based entirely around having EDM.

Although that EDM ranger is one of the stupidest and most worthless builds I've ever seen. Good luck leveling that on SCoD!
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We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.
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rapsam2003
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Ceremorph,Jan 4 2017
12:05 AM
Far too many characters (particularly warlock and [...]

I will smack the crap out of any warlock EDM builds I see. BAD! BAD! And I'm a warlock Gish lover. We warlocks can do better.

Frankly, I think EDM should scale much the same way Divine Might does now. The maximum benefit would be your Charisma modifier, whereas you get the minimum benefit (+1) if you only take 1-2 levels of cleric.
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

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edmaster44
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Let's not do that, as i said before, it's an Investment where you spread your CHA and STR thin just to get extra Smack down abilities.
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rapsam2003
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edmaster44,Jan 4 2017
10:48 AM
Let's not do that, as i said before, it's an Investment where you spread your CHA and STR thin just to get extra Smack down abilities.

Which isn't really that hard of an investment if you take certain builds. Orog says hello! And so does Via Draco!

We literally have races/templates where getting to 21 Strength and 21 Charisma isn't even a chore.

Edit: And, frankly, I think my suggestion is generous. A lot of servers used to just remove EDM outright.
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edmaster44
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I don't really see it being a Crazy epidemic of EDM Cheese fests and "Hur dur, Nymphsss with EDM!" I just don't see them at all, some people build for Rp others build for power. Guess who stick around longer?
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Theodoreick
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I am personally not a fan of modifications that a)add nothing b)require time to implement that could be used to add something new and useful instead c)make people upset ruining their builds.

If it is not going to be EDM it will be something else, not to mention that the viability and sense of those builds is up to debate. Even if I am not one who likes edm in general or one who uses or plans to use it in most of their builds, I still could not see many issues in, say, a favored soul who uses it. It is a divine caster after all. And so the others, especially if they roleplay it correctly, such as bards with holy music, etc. For those builds that get ridiculous such as the edm rangers or barbarians, well, I frankly see it more as their loss, if they cannot find a way to enjoy a new class with a new style of play, instead of relying on the same old mechanic. To each their own. ;)
PnP, Pencil-and-paper: the term refers to the ancient tools that were available to early roleplaying humankind. The pencil was a long piece of wood that contained a soft, staining, carbon-based material called graphite encased inside. Early roleplaying humans would scrape the pencil across the surface of paper. Paper was the term used to describe an early form of random access memory, consisting of pressed tree pulp that was smooth and designed to easily absorb the scrapings of pencil graphite.
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rapsam2003
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I mean, it's NOT like EDM was designed for anything other than clerics/paladins/blackguards. And never mind that it was stupid OP even in the base game. But, nah, let's just leave it be; despite the potential for abusing things. If your ridiculous powerbuild breaks because EDM gets changed, I really don't have a lot of sympathy for you.

Balancing EDM will do a lot to make clerics balanced, while getting rid of EDM powerbuilds.


Yes, there will always be something, but that doesn't change the reality that EDM is one of the most abuse-able mechanics in base NWN2 and even more so in SCoD, due to the wide range of races/templates available.
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

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Theodoreick
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rapsam2003,Jan 4 2017
05:08 PM
Yes, there will always be something,  but that doesn't change the reality that EDM is one of the most abuse-able mechanics in base NWN2 and even more so in SCoD, due to the wide range of races/templates available.
Careful with words there, it is wrong to talk about abuse of something that works as intented. You can argue that it is way overpowered and poor game design since it is too easy to get for non-paladins/blackguards (clerics can only get it with red dragon disciple in the base game, unless they renounce to 17-18-19 wisdom), but there is not a bug as in the practiced spellcaster feat, for example, that one can abuse. Balancing is another thing, but let's not talk of abuses that do not exist.

I remain skeptical, anyway, about the benefit that such a change could make to the server or the game in general, when what it achieves is simply damaging some players, without giving -anything- good for those who don't use it. And in general it sounds also quite judgmental, as if one took for themselves the moral authority to deem bad builds that use edm, in a holier-than-thou way that is definitely not good for a gaming community.
PnP, Pencil-and-paper: the term refers to the ancient tools that were available to early roleplaying humankind. The pencil was a long piece of wood that contained a soft, staining, carbon-based material called graphite encased inside. Early roleplaying humans would scrape the pencil across the surface of paper. Paper was the term used to describe an early form of random access memory, consisting of pressed tree pulp that was smooth and designed to easily absorb the scrapings of pencil graphite.
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RavenousB
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There is a lot of very powerful abilities in the game. One rarely used that probably should be used more often is Epic Dodge. What one considers over powered another may not and there is nearly always a strong undercurrent of politics in these types of arguments. It happens in every game.

SO. Just do what you want and don't bow into peer pressure one way or another. After all, a small pat on the back from a few isn't going to mean anything compared to your personal enjoyment factor of the game. It's also easy to level back up once you are geared if you ever want to change something on your character in the future.
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rapsam2003
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Theodoreick,Jan 4 2017
11:30 AM
rapsam2003,Jan 4 2017
05:08 PM
Yes, there will always be something,  but that doesn't change the reality that EDM is one of the most abuse-able mechanics in base NWN2 and even more so in SCoD, due to the wide range of races/templates available.
Careful with words there, it is wrong to talk about abuse of something that works as intented.

It was intended to be a cleric/paladin/blackguard ability, not something that can be gained via a level 1 dip. If you seriously are arguing that being used by every jack, joe, & harry out there is the intended use of EDM, then I want whatever you're smoking. :P
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

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Theodoreick
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If it had -truly- been intended to be exclusively for those classes it would have been programmed to require many levels of those, as it has been done for epic rage, eldritch master, song of requiem or in general for epic spells. The game designers could perfectly do that and they did not.

Given that you resort to rudeness to prove your argument I have to conclude you are unable to find any other valid and objective reason other than your personal, and subjective, opinion.
PnP, Pencil-and-paper: the term refers to the ancient tools that were available to early roleplaying humankind. The pencil was a long piece of wood that contained a soft, staining, carbon-based material called graphite encased inside. Early roleplaying humans would scrape the pencil across the surface of paper. Paper was the term used to describe an early form of random access memory, consisting of pressed tree pulp that was smooth and designed to easily absorb the scrapings of pencil graphite.
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