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| I Was Thinking . . . | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 15 2017, 12:00 PM (380 Views) | |
| DaftyXIII | Feb 15 2017, 12:00 PM Post #1 |
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Greybeard
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So today it clicked, the possibility of how Sigil was designed to be played vs how we the players play it. I'll explain . . . Sigil has places such as The Outlands, Ethereal Demiplane, and Maldomini that no one ventures too. So I asked myself why is that? I assume its because we as humans (especially those considered to be western countrys) dont want to grind, because we want it now. So we power grind our way to lets say 25, we realize that around that time our EXP is doping of dramaticaly compared to before. That also made me wonder if perhaps each plane that exists in sigil was meant to be played on, but we dont because the exp isn't that great. I have the hardest time with powering because surviability wise my gear aint up to par. but i do it anyways So, for those like me who posted anything like this this not long ago link to post are possibly thinking about things in the wrong way, perhaps we the average player are missing something in the formula? your thought's on this reader? |
| “For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." - Jean Dubuffet | |
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| SigTerm | Feb 15 2017, 12:21 PM Post #2 |
Blood
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People venture to those areas, but less frequently. Outlands are good at early (under 10) levels and contain nice maze with a cool combat encounter. Ethereal demiplane works on specific builds around level 13 or 16. Maldomini works at late teen/early 20s levels, but it heavily depends on your build. The area works well if you can't handle abyss, plus it has fairly tough temple in it. Cornugon hunting is fun. Those are not "uber popular spots" (Rats -> Brux -> Stairs in Limbo -> Abyss), but they're being used. The one really underutilized area is Khalas. I think last time I saw anyone go there was 3 years ago. Another infrequently used one is slags, but I saw people playing there recently. There are also few elusive places like "Plane of Ooze" (no idea where it is), plane of water, etc., plus one portal in lady's ward I could never open. Basically, a player that is not in a rush to get to 25 in 2 days will probably visit those areas eventually. |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Feb 15 2017, 12:25 PM Post #3 |
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The problem of SCoD has currently, is that it is a server that has gone through several different building philosophies. You could probably ask most builders/players/DMs how they view that SCoD should be played, and get different answers almost every time. You can see those everytime new areas are added by new people and they tend to gradually shift focus or give an idea of shift of focus. In short: what's the baseline to design around? The general vision of SCoD's difficulty is that it should be manageable without powerbuilding, but should not be absent of tactical thinking. With tactical thinking I do mean utilizing terrain, consumables, change of spells and general approach to fighting. You can brute force through it, definitely. And people are of the opinion that 200+ experience is the norm, but technically by the experience scripts 50 is the true norm (levels 1-5 and 25-30 are exceptions, as they have modified experience gains), SCoD rewards for facing tougher challenges however giving incentives to push the odds. Anything above that is technically a tougher challenge than meant for you. Of course RP experience muddies the calculations on that count. For most players there even exists no different difficulty except gatecrasher, but that can often make you fight against creatures meant for 4-5 levels higher player characters, so should that be used as a baseline for players considering difficulty? Of course not, you get what you're asking for with the difficulty setting. Now a more recent theme has been getting ever tougher areas, which I think is a concerning trend honestly. Krigala and the latest additions to Carceri are in my mind about those, they inspire the idea that powerbuilding is a thing that should be, but I'd contest that they should be the exception, and that exception should probably be capitalized more clearly, while better supporting the more wanted venues. Don't get me wrong, I don't claim that all other areas in SCoD are blame-free, there is definitely room for improvement, but it should be done with the reasonable sense that you should be able to manage without powerbuilding, but it shouldn't be completely trivialized. Outlands and Ethereal Plane are both rather outdated and haven't properly kept up with the times in terms of spawn design, not for the lack of trying. Outlands have always been an issue and while the area design is quite interesting (though I abhor the texture work there), they are up for singular fun adventure, but after that they kind of lose their charm as they simply aren't competitive to other alternatives. |
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| Nimiane | Feb 15 2017, 12:39 PM Post #4 |
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Lead Graphic Artist
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I think adding these areas to the Infinite Staircase would aid in them seeing more traffic, also. |
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ODETTE VIEUXPONT "The Bleak Bardess, Walker of Worlds." + Terika Ten-Tricks, Vhyenieth. | |
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| Sinlinara | Feb 15 2017, 12:40 PM Post #5 |
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Player-Support DM
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My first NWN2 experience was on a low-XP server. I considered 12-16 XP per kill to be actually great XP gain. The one time I got 50 from a mob I freaked out and started sending tells to friends explaining how amazing it was. Perspectives are interesting. And everyone comes to the server with different ones. My perspective meant that I was levelling incredibly slowly (playing a pure crafter before the Golem Master expansion update didn't help either) and only ever got to 25 two or three months into my gaming. As a result I also got to go and visit a lot of places that no one goes to normally. I remember having a system worked out where I would clear out Umber Hulks in the Plane of Earth by shooting them with a Staff of Blasting from the bridge where the big ones would run up and block the way of the little ones, and then I'd pick them off one-by-one with the 2d6 Eldritch Blast from the staff. It was slow, and painful, and far more difficult than it normally would have been. But it was also really memorable and engaging. |
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| cryptc | Feb 15 2017, 02:27 PM Post #6 |
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Advisor
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I once played a server that just gave xp to everyone in party split equally and took no note of character level. Levelled up from a single monster since epic party member killed something far, far above my level. It did teach me what not to do for when I designed the xp script for SCoD though... |
| "One of the most curious statements I've seen on this list is that PlaneScape is a logical world. I must have erred. I was trying to create a world that defied logic." - David 'Zeb' Cook | |
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| DaftyXIII | Feb 15 2017, 03:34 PM Post #7 |
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Greybeard
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its in the plane of earth, you'll know it when you se it... i stumbled upon it by acident thast the only reason i know.
I dint know the wheal was reinvented so to speak in SCoD, but yes I agree with if i asked some one how SCoD should be played i'd get so many diffrent answers i'll probably be sick. Overall the reason for this post is about us who think something needs to be buffed/nerfed as we all have our on way of playing as you said because of our wants/needs. If we all perhaps had a idea on how it was ment to be played. as in not going from the rats in the swers to brux, then to Astral Planes or plane of ice. basicaly playing hop scotch around the planes because we are pushing the envelope just to get more EXP faster. In the end of all that, I genraly do a rebuild atleast 2 times till i get to max level becasue my gear is bad. heck I got a character who is ECL 14, she has no magic gear on her but the weapons gained from the quests because reasons that upset me greatly.. and she has almost no gold because she keeps dieing, like less than 1k poor. now, as said many diffrent results are gunna happen, but i'm sure there is a average common ground that stuff can be based of of i assume? I apoligize for not quoting you all with a response but thank you for your input it helps me gain a bit of understanding I hope
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| “For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." - Jean Dubuffet | |
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| Darkrob | Feb 15 2017, 03:44 PM Post #8 |
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It's currently designed for most playstyles. Those who want to powerlevel their characters quickly will use the Brux/Limbo/Astral/Abyss. Those who want a slower experience will use the other areas more freely, taking their time and exploring as they RP. Thos with no real interest in levelling (or wanting to do so slowly) will use the RP areas and the lowest XP areas as they see fit. This allows inclusion for most player types. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| WhenWizardsWar | Feb 15 2017, 03:53 PM Post #9 |
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Factotum
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I think this is the heart of the matter. I personally don't think it comes down to XP generation at all as much as it matters about awareness. We have great influx of new players and even old players, who are often lead to certain specific areas for "wealth making and challenges". If people don't know a place exists, how can they have the desire to go there?. Giving planeswalkers incentive to travel to certain spots for reasons other then xp certainly could not hurt on any level. |
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I play: Miranda Ildesserin-"You have no idea what fear is, the greatest fear a mother can have is that of her child growing up...alone" Eisinar Mindblade: Illithid Soul Knife: "As long as I have my mind, i am never with out a weapon". Xil'ar'ran'oss-Beholder Psion:What do you mean "IF" looks could kill? | |
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| SigTerm | Feb 15 2017, 04:14 PM Post #10 |
Blood
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"Releveling twice because of bad gear" may happen if you skip the bazaar. Basically, somewhere in the middle of the slaughtering frenzy, character needs to stop, go to bazaar, sell all the junk they carry, find a player-controlled merchant, talk to them and buy gear. By level 3..6 you definitely should be able to afford at least one +4 tier items, and if you get lucky you may be able to get full set of them. However, I've seen people who REALLY rush through leveling, and may easily end up in limbo or in abyss with starting gear. Or someone who kept trying to rush Bugbears at level 2 or 3 with a light armored character that had neither a shield nor a combat expertise, with GateCrasher enabled. This kind of rush will only lead to additional pain down the road. When you "keep losing gold", it means you need to visit bazaar and buy planar coins. When you "keep dying", it means you can't handle the area, and either need a group, or need to find another area. And that's where all the other planes come into play. Rather than requesting something to be adjusted, the game requires player to sit back, think about it a bit and try a different strategy. In general, there IS a good strategy. A character that can't deal with abyss at the moment, may do surprisingly well in Minauros, on Mount Celestia, etc. Someone who can't handle Mercuria may perform great on plane of Fire. Sit back, determine weakness/problem of the character, and find a place where this weakness does not occur or find a way to address the weakness. Sigil is very easy in terms of acquiring gear, by the way. It is not like experience on certain other server where full set of +3 items can require a month or more and can easily cost close to 100k gold. |
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| DaftyXIII | Feb 15 2017, 04:54 PM Post #11 |
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Greybeard
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while you are right... there has recently been a decline of merchants as of recently.. once again.. and I cant get mine to make/encahnt/sell to my other pc's as its mueling, so its just I'm having bad luck honsetly after roughly 17:00 or 18:00 PST almost no merchants are in sight and earlier in the morning its the same thing x.x im generally on once i wake up too 12:00 pst then back on 17:00 or 18:00 PST most days, so while there may be merchants around sigil while i'm not on.. they arnt when i'm on. as for the easy bit, they arnt solo i assume? I'm here to tell you and not to get into details as no one wants to hear me cry because i'm alone 95% of the time. but yes I'm alone 95% of the time on SCoD, for whatever reason whether its cliques formed not accepting outsiders or he said or she said deal.. eather way there is a number of possibility and I could have burned a bridge or two without knowing as i was not told. So after a month when i first started on SCoD i made it my job to try and welcome the newer players and offer them assistance as they request or RP if they want all they needed to do is send me a tell. Not many new players as i'm aware of tho atm but i found two yseterday (they might be youngins, but I have the patience with kids thankfully), in hopes i can make them feel more welcome than i felt the first month. BUT it could be the fella's gear who was in limbo was jsut enough to get him by with the build he/she ran which complimented eachother. /shrugs all i know is i have the hardest time solo than in a group beacasue of my preferred style of builds perhaps. |
| “For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." - Jean Dubuffet | |
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| MimiFearthegn | Feb 15 2017, 05:07 PM Post #12 |
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Mistress of the Toolset / Player-Side Admin
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Its worth noting that some of these areas were built specifically to be "other options" - especially if you're talking about something built in the last few years. Occasionally these areas take the place of the things they were just meant to be alternatives to (Astral seems like that). I'm not sure that's a bad thing in most of the cases where its happened. Or they're there to fill a gap in the previous "most popular" leveling path. Limbo monsters were built to fill the pre-Abyss gap for the PCs who couldn't keep up momentum between (at that time) Baator and the Abyss. Some areas were built to be just as much about variety as leveling utility. We have a bunch of elemental planes in the mid-level range mainly because some builders wanted more elemental planes (its Sigil, its planescape, we should get to explore!). I think we're almost to the point where we can make a complete loop with them, and then we can spend the midlevels subjecting our characters to alternately being set on fire, drowned, and frozen. Of course, a few outliers have been created along the way. For instance the super Carcerie (which I've never gone to; getting a group together to take even normal-level Carcerie can be a pain as it is). That wasn't really a change in any universal build philosophy, though. That was one builder who liked to power build creating a super hard area. |
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| SigTerm | Feb 15 2017, 05:07 PM Post #13 |
Blood
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| DaftyXIII | Feb 15 2017, 05:12 PM Post #14 |
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Greybeard
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Interesting, Rob if I may ask... what made the decision to compliment the number of possibility styles of grinding? As it makes no sense to me as i'm not developer, and I would like to learn and understand more about the decision if that's ok ![]() I just noticed this post, sorry for neglecting my response all teh same, but this is a possibility to that, I like it I asume it'll be simmierly done with Minauros leading to Maldomini through a pit? i would like to see something like that done again but i'll admit not many know that The Outlands exist in the Hall of Records i meet one as a example who played on SCoD for 3 years off and on at the time and didn't know about that place, i also stumbled on folks that didn't know the Wand of Item Sorting existed in the merchant at the OOC room that played the same amount of time when i started x.x now thast not SCoD's fault really its more of a players fault lacking the drive to explore around taking in all the sights and seeing where stuff is. So once again I like the idea of a transiton in some place leading to a connected plane perhaps start with high traffic planes and add those in? hopefully after folks see that these things exist in a number of places, perhaps it'll motivate folks to explore? |
| “For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." - Jean Dubuffet | |
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| DaftyXIII | Feb 15 2017, 05:20 PM Post #15 |
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Greybeard
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huh, I never thought about it that way, it makes sense RP wise for sure... now if i may pitch in a idea witch im sure was already implimented. What if there where a place other than The Lake of Fire or any Group Adventure Areas located In This Link are added for a bit more diversity on who and what we face? all I seem to engage in those areas are Fiends or Undead (i have not been to them all so i could be wrong) I would love to see a more diverse NPC mob type to kill as i would like to use lets say poisons or perhaps have a sneak attack build without needing Epic Percison, its just a thought that perhpas there are lvl 25+ worthy NPC foes to go against that might have diffrent resistances and damage types offering more diversity to our builds to counter those possible new foes ![]() NOTE : sry for a double post if it is one by the time i click submit >.> |
| “For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity." - Jean Dubuffet | |
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12:39 AM Jul 11