Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Direct Connect: scod.game-server.cc
NWN List
Announcements
Welcome to the forums of Sigil: City of Doors. | New update 5/28/18 - read the update notes here!
Welcome to Sigil: City of Doors. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Multi-Quote Post on Multi-Quote Post off
Locked Topic
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 8
Re: The New Ooc Room Rule; An Address to the Server and Staff
Topic Started: Feb 27 2017, 05:19 PM (2,922 Views)
Summer Wind
Member Avatar
Your Fickle Friend
[ *  * ]
Quote:
 
Posted by Scintilla Feb 26, 2017

Lady's Grace, Cutters!

As of this point forward, the OOC room will no longer be an acceptable location to loiter without a viable reason to do so. These include but are not limited to; rebuilding, helping someone rebuild, making use of NPCs, waiting for a DM port and immediately after reset. Increased activity and use of spells in single area not only creates server strain, but can be off-putting and overwhelming to those unfamiliar with the server.

With the entirety of a prolific server to explore and a richly crafted world to immerse oneself in, the reasons to remain Out of Character are few. The past and present integration of IRC and unofficial Discord hangouts cater to these aspects.

Upon logging in, please make your way to the portal as soon as you are able to do so.


I wanted to sleep on this matter before I posted, and now that I have, I feel like this topic needs to be opened for discussion among the entire server. Granted, I'm not a member of the staff, so I don't know what discussion took place that led to the execution of this new rule, but I'm worried about it. Please, let me explain.

Firstly, and most importantly, as a long time player on SCoD I can confidently state that OOC Room interaction has always been a staple of community building on this server. It's important to keep in mind that any PW is not a community of characters, it's a community of players. Good OOC relations between those players is far more important than any RP taking place. Since SCoD's foundation the OOC Room has been the center of that community. Yes, there are now the IRC and Discord, but the hard fact is that not every player even uses the forum, let alone the chat programs available. So, to those players the new rule precludes the opportunity of forming OOC rapport with other players. Then there are players like me, who do use the forums, but don't use the chats. Should I and those like me no longer be afforded the right to goof off with SCoD buddies?

Unfortunately, looking forward I can only see this rule manifesting in one of two ways. Either it's respected, and SCoD loses a great deal of what makes it special. In a manner of speaking, it loses a part of its soul. And, also, let's not forget that Er Nano Infame put a great deal of effort into building the new OOC Room and it would be unfair to them at the very least to rush players through it each time they log on.

Or, stipulations of the new rule (reasons defined as acceptable in Scintilla's post) are so broad and sweeping, that we see absolutely no change at all and the rule is a rule for the sake of being a rule. Which is, as we all know, also against the spirit of SCoD.

One of the things that has kept me coming back to this server for almost ten years is its attitude. One of live and let live. SCoD has never been a rule laden server, and what rules there are have always been defined as a means of safeguarding players from abuse and insensitivity from others. It seems to me that this new rule not only smacks of a level of control that violates SCoD's premise, but is also unnecessary.

If indeed the purpose of the new rule is to avoid server lag, I think there are much more glaring issues that could be addressed before limiting the one single communal OOC area in the server. For example, the staff could address that the Bazaar is often polluted with signs that are left up with magical effects for hours upon hours. Those effects in the game's most densely populated area are a much bigger drain on server resources than the OOC Room has ever been, and that's just a single example. As for putting off new players, the OOC Room is the least of the staff's concerns. I'll draw attention to the last area update removing the server's only level 1 quest. I strongly doubt that if a new player encounters difficulty in SCoD, it will have anything to do with the OOC Room.

Alright. I've said my piece and apologize to any staff members who might feel like I'm stepping on toes. I just think it's important that this be brought to discussion for the reasons I've listed. Maybe I'm wrong and no one will agree with me, but I certainly hope I'm not alone in my opinion.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Vesper
Member Avatar
(( * ^_^ * ))
[ *  * ]
Would it not be much better to simply create a small, private antechamber that automatically ports one to the main OOC room 30 seconds after login?

It would be better for our shape-changing friends who might wish to conceal their nature. They would no longer have to wait for even those with a legitimate purpose in the OOC room to finish their rebuilds or gather their event groups, without themselves being accused of loitering.

It would be better for those with such purposes, who might have a better chance of finding someone willing to hold their belongings for a rebuild, or comment on an outfit or bio before committing to it in-game.

It would also be better for our DM friends, who would not be called upon to enforce a rule with such a subjective component as 'legitimacy', which might easily lead to player disputes. Instead, everything would be handled mechanically.

I hope that this proposal is given due consideration.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
rapsam2003
Member Avatar

Builders/scripters
What should be the staple of community building is the RP on this server. If you need to jerk off in the OOC Room, then why not go join a social server somewhere? My 2 cents.

Summer Wind,Feb 27 2017
11:19 AM
Good OOC relations between those players is far more important than any RP taking place.

No. Just no. You don't need to be everyone's best friend to RP with them. If you need good OOC relations, that was already covered by the IRC and by Discord.
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Hydra
Member Avatar
Ol' Hydra
Builders/scripters
I couldn't have said better... From my point of view it seems the general consensus has been about common sense and being reasonable rather than policed and that's what a lot of people do seem to enjoy here.

Posted Image
- Kala Ta'Kan : Factor of the Beleivers of the Source
- Ash (Kazuko Yudeoshi)
- Safana Washedan
- and many other alts.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
edmaster44
Member Avatar

Dungeon Master
rapsam2003,Feb 27 2017
01:32 PM
What should be the staple of community building is the RP on this server. If you need to jerk off in the OOC Room, then why not go join a social server somewhere? My 2 cents.

OOC room is a great lube to new and mostly shy people who are perhaps intimated by the Sheer vastness of Planescape and might be too shy to log in right away. I know I've hung out in the OOC room for a bit and answered a few Questions to one or two People. Frankly i don't like that jerk off comment you said, because i think you're wrong about that on so many levels. If i wanted to Jerk off, i'd have some one else do it for me in Real life.

Oh and ..
Posted Image

Perfectly Said my friend.
Helena Al'Iblis - Merchant, Mother, Wife and Sensate.
Stormbringer - Princess from Melechesh, Scholar of the Planes, Sign of One, One of us!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Neerepha
Member Avatar
Imagination creates reality.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Posted by Scintilla Feb 26, 2017

Lady's Grace, Cutters!

As of this point forward, the OOC room will no longer be an acceptable location to loiter without a viable reason to do so. These include but are not limited to; rebuilding, helping someone rebuild, making use of NPCs, waiting for a DM port and immediately after reset. Increased activity and use of spells in single area not only creates server strain, but can be off-putting and overwhelming to those unfamiliar with the server.

With the entirety of a prolific server to explore and a richly crafted world to immerse oneself in, the reasons to remain Out of Character are few. The past and present integration of IRC and unofficial Discord hangouts cater to these aspects.

Upon logging in, please make your way to the portal as soon as you are able to do so.


First of all, you're taking for granted we all have people on Skype/Discord/Whatever. I don't. I sometimes wait for people to log in in the OOC room.
Second, this is an utterly ridiculous rule. If metagame happens, it doesn't happen because we're in the OOC room, it happens because people are behaving unfairly towards each other, and that's a matter that must be taken care of in a way that doesn't affect the entire server. I wonder, how would you watch on us 24/24 everyday, to ensure the rule will not be broken? In the same way you haven't been able to apply the rule "Do not cast spells in the OOC room", you won't be able to do this either. I have dispelled spells so many times by myself, because the room was full of sh*t.
Now, if we have to do something, is trying to have a more mature behaviour.
Also, remember that you might be flooded by parties of people talking oocly, now. Great for DMs/EMs logging in, right?
I closed myself off in the past, while building a new world at the same time, pointing at the future, and more and more clearly I realised this world would have been my shelter, where I would have found salvation from all the miseries. (Wagner)

I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the truth of imagination-what the imagination seizes as beauty must be truth-whether it existed before or not. (Keats)
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Leona
Member Avatar
Blood
[ *  *  *  * ]
I'm sort of 50-50 about this rule. While I agree the loitering part might be a bit much. I've also had times where I log on the server and instantly crash cause people have decided to spam spells in the OOC room which my PC doesn't like. That is very very annoying and I'm sure someone will say "Well you can use the no spell effects mod and it probably won't crash then." You are right, but should I have to just to log in the OOC room?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
TheorumOfNeutrality
No Avatar
Chronically Neutral
[ *  *  *  * ]
I'm a fellow long-time player - and I have to say that I really don't share your fears. Problems with the OOC room have persisted as long as I can remember (particularly, people re-crashing the server with spells), and DMs usually ushered people who were loitering out into the module.

I think you're placing an excessive amount of importance on the casual conversation that goes in the OOC room. I, personally, have never formed a long-time rapport with any player through conversations there. Anyone I can claim to be acquainted with OOCly, I RP'd with first - and then usually engaged in Tell conversations. I think many other players may share my experience.

Similarly to you, I use the forums but don't use Discord. I don't feel I'm being denied the right to do anything. Mostly because I have a tendency to ambush anyone I know well with tells right as they log in! As I say this, I do not intend to demean these interactions - I've engaged in them plenty, myself. But to state that they are the "cornerstone" of the community is incorrect, and opinion masquerading as fact.

The truth is that this should have been made a rule years ago - as it has been a consistent issue for years and years now. There are a few key reasons this rule makes sense:
1. It deals with a longstanding problem with stability issues regarding people congregating in small areas for long periods of time. (See: Any event ever for evidence)
2. Not all new players are endeared by seeing a room full of people goofing off as they log in for the first time. It can aid shy players in integration with the server.
3. It will allow players who use Change Self a certain amount of OOC privacy when they log in, so they don't expose to everyone that they're a dragon or doppelganger or whatever.

With what few rules we have already, this one fits in neatly. It is not excessive, broad or sweeping. It does not inhibit anyone's ability to play or communicate what they wish. It only changes where that communication can occur.

But - perhaps there can be a middle ground. Perhaps an OOC lounge can be added to the module for the purposes of going AFK or for short bursts of casual OOC conversation. I know I'd prefer to see less OOC chatter in the Bazaar. Maybe it can forbid all forms of spellcasting or feat usage. It could include tailoring mirrors, the library and an event board. Perhaps it could be accessed from the Essence item.

Just a few ideas.

Edit: Where the hell are my applause gifs?
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
rapsam2003
Member Avatar

Builders/scripters
edmaster44,Feb 27 2017
11:35 AM
rankly i don't like that jerk off comment you said, because i think you're wrong about that on so many levels. If i wanted to Jerk off, i'd have some one else do it for me in Real life.

I think you knew what I meant. :P

I will echo TheorumOfNeutrality's comment though. The players I've built rapport with are the ones that I've had solid RP with. It's easy enough to do even a short (2 minutes) session and then send a tell saying, "Thanks for the RP" and go from there. This is a RP server, and RP should be the foundation for what we do here.

TheorumOfNeutrality,Feb 27 2017
11:52 AM
2. Not all new players are endeared by seeing a room full of people goofing off as they log in for the first time. It can aid shy players in integration with the server.

Honestly, when I was new, this was a big turnoff for me. If the OOC Room is more interesting than the server itself, there's a problem. (I don't think that's the case, but if you're new...how would you know that?) The reason I stuck around is because Planescape was always one of my favorite settings. Hell, I got into Planescape as a setting because of Baldur's Gate 2 and the companion Haer'dalis, who had a questline that mentioned Sigil. From there, I got into Planescape Torment. When I found out SCoD was a thing, I was excited as all-get-out!

The OOC Room definitely is NOT what kept me around. And seeing everyone hanging out there is, frankly, a bit odd. Every reset, we have folks there for like an hour or more.
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mr_Otyugh
Member Avatar

Dungeon Master
I can confidently start by saying that this issue doesn't touch me pretty much at all. I do not linger around actively in the OOC room all that much. That said, I do have some opinions about the topic at hand.

I also hope that we can all try to remain calm and martial our opinions. No one is going to be more agreeable the more aggressive you seem, the more likely thing to occur is to get everyone defensive about their opinions. I do understand why people are upset, but trying to demean others is only going to work into your disfavor. I mean lets be fair, none of you are even currently getting in the server to "suffer" this ruling :lol: so calm down. Yeah yeah! I'm working on that issue, don't worry! (shouldn't take long)

The whole "vacate the OOC room" theme is actually pretty much as old as the NWN2 is, I remember that happening in the first major server too. There's really mixed proofs on how much impact it has generally had. This is mostly my own observations, in its extreme form it can definitely have an impact (like everyone going VFX heavy and cast for the sake of showing off and what not), but more common is usually when the server is just starting up, that's the time you want to keep things calm and let the server properly load up everything before starting to "goof around", if server has been up for a while, then that won't really make any more impact in the starting area than it will in any other. I know I've occasionally expressed it or just cleaned up OOC room years ago, but overall it's mechanically an avoidable issue. I know an old solution to that aspect was to make OOC room use the same scripts as ethereal demiplane.

I also don't think that OOC room is actually the staple of community community building, do read on before commenting. Staple of community building is the capability to get in contact with fellow players without the need of IC pressure, something I do have a positive view about. But while the OOC room is a community building place, that area is technically what you are defending. It could technically be replaced with an OOC lounge or anything and the general point would remain the same. I am in general support that players logged in is effectively better than not. Technically that'd also bypass the issue of first impressions. *shrugs*

I'm not entirely sure if I understand the subtext correctly, but if I were to interpret my understanding it's about trying to inspire roleplay, but I'm not entirely sure this is a method that'll work.

*edit* To expand on that view actually, if the issue is that not more people are roleplaying, I'm a general believer that it indicates the issue isn't OOC room, but rather it is what's waiting for them beyond OOC room that causes them not to move in. So I think it's better to maybe come up with mutual ideas how to get people hop in. The most effective (and difficult to do) is IC ties to other characters, if there's a character you want to RP with, you sure ain't going to hang around goofing around. If there's an event waiting, again you're just going to go by and join the event.*/edit*

Anyway, as said, I'm fine either way :P but I'm not sure the general minute gain is worth the fight. There are probably better ways.
Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator
NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller
Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder
In-case of problems: Click Here
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
zethrenx99
No Avatar
Greybeard
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I think its a none-issue. In general if people would just be considerate and refrain from casting spells or using abilities and try to move in game after crashes resets ASAP then there shouldn't be any issue. If the spell casting continues to be an issue for people trying to log in than implement a 100% spellfailure mod in the ooc room? With that said I am a ooc loiterer in that sometimes I come on just to see whats going on with people, say hello ect. Or sometimes i just want to work on my bio's without having to worry about people trying to interact with me. Or maybe my character is just laying low for a while and I want to wait for the bazaar to clear out a bit. In my time here I've only crashed once on log in from absurd effects and i've only seen the server crash maybe 3 times due to the ooc room getting overcrowded, and most of these times where during large server side events where there was a large population trying to get back in at once.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Darkrob
Member Avatar

Admin
I know I love nothing more than logging on and entering the OOC and becoming immediately bombarded with players running about casting spells, using abilities, cursing and swearing and carrying on like its recess at school. It makes me want to simply log off most times (I can only imagine what it does to new players). Is this the exception instead of the norm? Perhaps, but still occurs quite often. Staff has left it up to the players for years to police their activity on their own… to use their own common sense to use the OOC properly. It has shown it doesn’t always work as the circus continues to show up now and then.

Now I’m all for a separate area for ooc chatting but would that stop people from still abusing the OOC? I’m not entirely sure. I think you’ll need to convince the team that abuse of the ooc would be a thing of the past in order for them to pull back on the rule. Too many years of evidence contrary to that is what they’re currently going on.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
TheorumOfNeutrality
No Avatar
Chronically Neutral
[ *  *  *  * ]
Darkrob
 
Now I’m all for a separate area for ooc chatting but would that stop people from still abusing the OOC?


It's worked on every server I've seen it applied to. I see no reason why it wouldn't in this case.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Theodoreick
Member Avatar

Wiki Contributer
As I wrote in a pm, it is not that big deal, since the real game is indeed IC.

However I think it is worth mentioning that the rule seems quite sloppy in the way it has been worded and proposed, to say the least, and that the benefits it has seem very marginal, at best, and almost negligible, in practice.

Now, let's look at the evidence:

- Server stability: having 20 people in the bazaar or in the OOC room is not different. Spells can be scripted not to work in the OOC room quite easily, so that would solve the spell problem without any need for a rule.

- Metagame: to think such a rule would significantly reduce metagaming is hopelessly naive. If there is the desire to let shifters be protected one needs some other solutions. First and foremost letting them login while shifted would be really the first thing, if possible to do. Additionally, letting them change their character's name would also be of a big help. I don't see how can roleplay a shifter effectively when you see a dwarf with the same exact name of the succubus you had seen a little earlier... Last but not least, I think that the login room proposed above where you stay only 30 seconds would probably do much better in this case.

As for the collateral damage:

- Rebuilding: without loiters in the OOC room will become more problematic, regardless of what any can say. One will need to either recruit helpers on Discord or ask them in tells to leave what they are doing in game and go there to help rebuilding.

- OOC bantering: as much as many don't care for it, some players indeed seem to value it highly and it is safe to say it is part of the spirit of the community. Like it or not it is a loss.

- Newbie help: I have personally seen people who were confused by the server being helped in the OOC room and I helped one personally. Some newbies do indeed care for it, and such help and assistance with such a rule will be compromised. It is true that one can help a newbie also in the game proper, but it is not as practical and still some would be missed.

- Playercount: in communities with a small playercount (i.e. <200) such as most nwn servers or muds the only way not to become a dead game is to try *anything* to keep the playercount high. Nobody will log into a multiplayer game with 0 other users. One plays a single-player game at that point. And when a new user has to pick one of these server the playercount has a weight in the choice. This rule will make fewer people log on SCoD, so unless there is a desire not to get new users, this is bad.

So, summing up:

- Benefits: negligible
- Collateral Damage: considerable

My personal judgement on the rule: probably ineffective and sloppy, in general not worth it.

I am sorry but I am not a yesman. If I think the administration of a game/server I care for does something wrong I am not one who will be shy to point it out. Then of course, sometimes it is me who is wrong sometimes, instead of them.
PnP, Pencil-and-paper: the term refers to the ancient tools that were available to early roleplaying humankind. The pencil was a long piece of wood that contained a soft, staining, carbon-based material called graphite encased inside. Early roleplaying humans would scrape the pencil across the surface of paper. Paper was the term used to describe an early form of random access memory, consisting of pressed tree pulp that was smooth and designed to easily absorb the scrapings of pencil graphite.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
rapsam2003
Member Avatar

Builders/scripters
Theodoreick,Feb 27 2017
12:58 PM
- Rebuilding: without loiters in the OOC room will become more problematic, regardless of what any can say. One will need to either recruit helpers on Discord or ask them in tells to leave what they are doing in game and go there to help rebuilding.

9/10, you need to do this anyway, even if there are a bunch of folks doing their OOC banter.

Theodoreick,Feb 27 2017
12:58 PM
- OOC bantering: as much as many don't care for it, some players indeed seem to value it highly and it is safe to say it is part of the spirit of the community. Like it or not it is a loss.

That's nice. Banter on Discord/IRC. The SCoD Discord is becoming quite big. And for those who "don't have it", that's a choice they make.

Theodoreick,Feb 27 2017
12:58 PM
- Newbie help: I have personally seen people who were confused by the server being helped in the OOC room and I helped one personally. Some newbies do indeed care for it, and such help and assistance with such a rule will be compromised. It is true that one can help a newbie also in the game proper, but it is not as practical and still some would be missed.

I don't see this as big a loss as a newbie who walks in, sees 20 people in the OOC Room, and goes, "Well, that's a major turnoff...". He or she may never come back, for all we know. On the other hand, RP'ing a bit with a newbie and then sending them tells, that's sure to make them want to come back, imho.

Theodoreick,Feb 27 2017
12:58 PM
This rule will make fewer people log on SCoD, so unless there is a desire not to get new users, this is bad.

No, it won't. Where's your proof of that? Honestly, if people leave the server because they can't banter in the OOC Room, then why are they even on this server?! It's a RP server, not a social server.

Darkrob,Feb 27 2017
12:22 PM
Now I’m all for a separate area for ooc chatting but would that stop people from still abusing the OOC? I’m not entirely sure. I think you’ll need to convince the team that abuse of the ooc would be a thing of the past in order for them to pull back on the rule. Too many years of evidence contrary to that is what they’re currently going on.

Works for me. If people must have their OOC bantz, they may as well have them in an area specifically set aside for it. I don't see the point myself, but who am I to say others can't have an area specifically set aside for their bantz? /shrug
The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock
Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher

Posted Image
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Locked Topic
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 8