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Re: The New Ooc Room Rule; An Address to the Server and Staff
Topic Started: Feb 27 2017, 05:19 PM (2,927 Views)
Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
ewe,Feb 27 2017
11:40 PM
If anything now we just have to all sit in the hall of mirrors.

I'm going to be first to say: go for it. :P
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Darkrob
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CheeseWedge,Feb 27 2017
05:40 PM
Darkrob,Feb 27 2017
09:34 PM
I can't code and I can't build but I'm willing to carry the message back to the team. It's pretty simple actually... if I can't do it, I can't sell it. I'm looking for easy to implement solutions. Telling me that I have a poor attitude for doing that isn't that good either.


I was more trying to imply that the words present a poor attitude or tone. An easier solution is obviously preferable, but the way it was worded suggests taking tools for solutions out of the hands of the people wanting to create a solution. No offense was intended.

And no offence was taken. Hell, if a solution 'means' coding or building then I would also have to take back the names of volunteers to do it. So that option is still open (if even remotely) but in my shoes, as the one willing to carry the message, it's gotta be what I can do or what you can do... not what they can do (if that makes any sense).
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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ewe
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Tester
Mr_Otyugh,Feb 27 2017
09:42 PM
ewe,Feb 27 2017
11:40 PM
If anything now we just have to all sit in the hall of mirrors.

I'm going to be first to say: go for it. :P

But what next when they create a rule saying we can't loiter in the OOC hall of mirrors room? "Oh no, they know what my armor really looks like! It's metagaming!"
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
ewe,Feb 27 2017
11:43 PM
Mr_Otyugh,Feb 27 2017
09:42 PM
ewe,Feb 27 2017
11:40 PM
If anything now we just have to all sit in the hall of mirrors.

I'm going to be first to say: go for it. :P

But what next when they create a rule saying we can't loiter in the OOC hall of mirrors room? "Oh no, they know what my armor really looks like! It's metagaming!"

They can go to change their armors in the Civic Festhall still.
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Darkrob
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ewe,Feb 27 2017
05:40 PM
I'm not willing to find middle ground for an unjust rule that is based on false claims.
I rather object and put up with the rule than agree to it.

If anything now we just have to all sit in the hall of mirrors.

Well if you're not interested in trying to find a solution, then I've little want to argue with you further. I'm only interested in resolving this for both sides, not just yours.
Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant
Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant
Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3

"You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment."
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ewe
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Tester
Darkrob,Feb 27 2017
09:44 PM
ewe,Feb 27 2017
05:40 PM
I'm not willing to find middle ground for an unjust rule that is based on false claims.
I rather object and put up with the rule than agree to it.

If anything now we just have to all sit in the hall of mirrors.

Well if you're not interested in trying to find a solution, then I've little want to argue with you further. I'm only interested in resolving this for both sides, not just yours.

The problem isn't even an issue. Server stability is not harmed by OOC room any more than any other room. People seeing the true form of a shifter briefly is not an issue either (there are at least four other ways we can tell you're a shifter from super high rolls in events to the multitude of buffs next to your character frame in party). We are manufacturing a problem and solution to something that does not exist.
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CheeseWedge
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ewe,Feb 27 2017
09:45 PM
The problem isn't even an issue. Server stability is not harmed by OOC room any more than any other room. People seeing the true form of a shifter briefly is not an issue either (there are at least four other ways we can tell you're a shifter from super high rolls in events to the multitude of buffs next to your character frame in party). We are manufacturing a problem and solution to something that does not exist.


I doubt they are just making rules willy-nilly because they feel like it. It was obviously a perceived issue for at least a few people. Whether this is the best solution or not is still debatable, but I would not claim that no problem exists.
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ewe
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Tester
CheeseWedge,Feb 27 2017
09:59 PM
ewe,Feb 27 2017
09:45 PM
The problem isn't even an issue.  Server stability is not harmed by OOC room any more than any other room.  People seeing the true form of a shifter briefly is not an issue either (there are at least four other ways we can tell you're a shifter from super high rolls in events to the multitude of buffs next to your character frame in party).  We are manufacturing a problem and solution to something that does not exist.


I doubt they are just making rules willy-nilly because they feel like it. It was obviously a perceived issue for at least a few people. Whether this is the best solution or not is still debatable, but I would not claim that no problem exists.

If there truly is a problem, then it is clearly being covered up by fake news about server stability. After a reset most mages cast every single persisted buff in the entire game on themselves after going through the portal in the bazaar... how can that possibly be more stable?

And there's virtually no way for a shifter to not be uncovered, and most if it is due to their own role play and nothing to do with mechanics. Why would you go and make a 50str check as a halfling if you're trying to blend in as a real halfling? Then if someone calls you out as if you aren't really a halfling they just cry metagamer.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
Oh stop it with the fake news nonsense. You're not fan of the idea, the point came across. Doesn't mean you need to say the same thing over and over again. x) It actually won't help the argument.
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edmaster44
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Dungeon Master
ewe,Feb 27 2017
06:01 PM
CheeseWedge,Feb 27 2017
09:59 PM
ewe,Feb 27 2017
09:45 PM
The problem isn't even an issue.  Server stability is not harmed by OOC room any more than any other room.  People seeing the true form of a shifter briefly is not an issue either (there are at least four other ways we can tell you're a shifter from super high rolls in events to the multitude of buffs next to your character frame in party).  We are manufacturing a problem and solution to something that does not exist.


I doubt they are just making rules willy-nilly because they feel like it. It was obviously a perceived issue for at least a few people. Whether this is the best solution or not is still debatable, but I would not claim that no problem exists.

If there truly is a problem, then it is clearly being covered up by fake news about server stability. After a reset most mages cast every single persisted buff in the entire game on themselves after going through the portal in the bazaar... how can that possibly be more stable?

And there's virtually no way for a shifter to not be uncovered, and most if it is due to their own role play and nothing to do with mechanics. Why would you go and make a 50str check as a halfling if you're trying to blend in as a real halfling? Then if someone calls you out as if you aren't really a halfling they just cry metagamer.

My favorite Halflings, the Not Halflings who carry a Lamp post and cry when we call them Not Halflings.
Helena Al'Iblis - Merchant, Mother, Wife and Sensate.
Stormbringer - Princess from Melechesh, Scholar of the Planes, Sign of One, One of us!
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ewe
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Tester
So what am I suppose to be afraid to log in now? Because I might see someone unshifted and then get accused of loitering? Logging in should be fun not stressful.
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CheeseWedge
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ewe,Feb 27 2017
10:01 PM
And there's virtually no way for a shifter to not be uncovered, and most if it is due to their own role play and nothing to do with mechanics.  Why would you go and make a 50str check as a halfling if you're trying to blend in as a real halfling?  Then if someone calls you out as if you aren't really a halfling they just cry metagamer.


I would say just because you see a +20 on someone's strength roll does not necessarily mean you know ICly that they have 50 str. At least not if what they are attempting to do is not some massive feat of strength. Unfortunately, you can't scale down your "roll" to RP not using all your strength. I assume it's implied unless they emote something over the top.

Unless what you mean is that it's not hard OOCly to figure it out, then I suppose that is true. Being caught logging in in your natural form is probably the least of your worries in being OOCly discovered, unless you intend to never ever shift into your natural form in case someone, ya know, sees you and reads your name.

But ICly? You can't use stat rolls to call someone out.
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Mr_Otyugh
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Dungeon Master
No x) that's a silly scenario that you've manufactured in your mind. This issue really doesn't need to be this polarized or binary. It doesn't need to be strict "yes or no" because real life doesn't work like that. Just because you have no issues, doesn't mean some others may not, and I personally don't see any issue in trying to make things better for everyone.
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Summer Wind
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I'm disappointed to see that this conversation has turned so vitriolic. I think that we can all hold a civil conversation in which we respect both opinions and other players. This is one of the things I emphasize when I say thay we're a community of players and not characters. Regardless of how strongly one might prioritize RP, players don't enjoy interacting with another player they consider rude.

Having said that, I adore the idea of a compromise. What I suggest is this:

Create a new and modest replacement for the current OOC Room. This area should include only the basic necessities for new players, such as a starting gear merchant, and alerts to resources. But it should not include the luxuries of the OOC Room i.e. the character deletion NPC, the barber, the Hall of
Mirrors, etc. Then add a new command to the character essence that enables characters to relocate to the current OOC Room, complete with all of it's current features.

This is a basic premise and requires some polish to succeed, so please don't reply with posts that point out minor details that I've missed. I would like to avoid writing a technical document just now.

I think this solution has great potential and answers the many concerns that we see voiced here. It could be another contribution to a server that has been great for so long. Now more than ever it's important to ensure that changes made are improvements, and I think we see enough divisiveness over this new rule to recognize that it's not an improvement.

I hope that we can continue to discuss this civilly, and I apologize for the heated debate that took place in Discord. I was disappointed when I read about it. My hope was not aggression, but constructive discourse.
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Nimiane
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TheorumOfNeutrality,Feb 27 2017
05:52 PM
I'm a fellow long-time player - and I have to say that I really don't share your fears. Problems with the OOC room have persisted as long as I can remember (particularly, people re-crashing the server with spells), and DMs usually ushered people who were loitering out into the module.

I think you're placing an excessive amount of importance on the casual conversation that goes in the OOC room. I, personally, have never formed a long-time rapport with any player through conversations there. Anyone I can claim to be acquainted with OOCly, I RP'd with first - and then usually engaged in Tell conversations. I think many other players may share my experience.

Similarly to you, I use the forums but don't use Discord. I don't feel I'm being denied the right to do anything. Mostly because I have a tendency to ambush anyone I know well with tells right as they log in! As I say this, I do not intend to demean these interactions - I've engaged in them plenty, myself. But to state that they are the "cornerstone" of the community is incorrect, and opinion masquerading as fact.

The truth is that this should have been made a rule years ago - as it has been a consistent issue for years and years now. There are a few key reasons this rule makes sense:
1. It deals with a longstanding problem with stability issues regarding people congregating in small areas for long periods of time. (See: Any event ever for evidence)
2. Not all new players are endeared by seeing a room full of people goofing off as they log in for the first time. It can aid shy players in integration with the server.
3. It will allow players who use Change Self a certain amount of OOC privacy when they log in, so they don't expose to everyone that they're a dragon or doppelganger or whatever.

With what few rules we have already, this one fits in neatly. It is not excessive, broad or sweeping. It does not inhibit anyone's ability to play or communicate what they wish. It only changes where that communication can occur.

But - perhaps there can be a middle ground. Perhaps an OOC lounge can be added to the module for the purposes of going AFK or for short bursts of casual OOC conversation. I know I'd prefer to see less OOC chatter in the Bazaar. Maybe it can forbid all forms of spellcasting or feat usage. It could include tailoring mirrors, the library and an event board. Perhaps it could be accessed from the Essence item.

Just a few ideas.

Edit: Where the hell are my applause gifs?

Posted Image

Here it is.

Also, a +1 because I agree with almost every point Theorum has made here. :thumbs:
And +1 for Summerwind, because flies and vinegar and all that. At the end of the day, we're all here because we share the same hobby, and the same desire for our server's success.
ODETTE VIEUXPONT
"The Bleak Bardess, Walker of Worlds."
+ Terika Ten-Tricks, Vhyenieth.
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