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| Legacy Characters And Server | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 26 2017, 12:23 PM (1,032 Views) | |
| zethrenx99 | Mar 26 2017, 03:43 PM Post #16 |
Greybeard
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I'm not sure how its elitist to want to even the playing field . . . if anything that's the opposite of elitism XD Sure, new players coming in and demanding this and that should be change because "I dont like it!" is snobby, But as a game, on a game standpoint, and one that hinders on a playerbase and a regular flow of players, it is important to keep in mind the needs and desires of anyone new to to mod. . . or maybe even nwn in general because its the flow of new players that keeps a server afloat IMO. Instead of snubbing them off as being entitled and their opinion is beneath you. I think the prospect of always being weaker then those before you is disheartening for many people. And if RP is the focus here, then none of it should matter and the legacy players would favor the new races because less ecl = more diversity in character, no one is forcing you to take that prc unless it fits your RP and not your desired strength. Other very real concerns with having the separation of two power levels is, as I have state several times in other threads, area difficulty. This mod is hard, REALLY hard for new players. Its hard for even older more experienced players who know how to manipulate mechanics. Its my opinion that some of these area's are designed with legacy races in mind. |
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| Darkrob | Mar 26 2017, 03:50 PM Post #17 |
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Yes, new players will always feel weaker than older players in a mod that has been designed, and evolved, over years. It's inevitable. Those who've been here over the years, through the good and bad, through imbalance and less imbalance, through decisions made and decisions rescinded, will know the most about the place, have old and rare goodies, having items, gear, races and skills not available to new players. That's a given in any multiplayer game. But to demand that they either give up all those years of playing and investment, all the mistakes, arguments and concessions, just to placate new players, is just as wrong, if not more so. It's an old game and the playerbase is sparse, I agree, so it shouldn't be a shock to newer players (of such an old game) that they're going to have access to different things than the rest of the playerbase who've been at it for (what seems like) forever. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| DM-Stitch(es) | Mar 26 2017, 03:54 PM Post #18 |
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Old players will have things that hail from 2009, new players won't... Doesn't mean old players are not willing to help out new folk, just can't expect them to relinquish things they rp'd for and worked hard for. Downside for them, they can't rebuild their characters, since they will forfeit their "builds/classes"
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| zethrenx99 | Mar 26 2017, 04:03 PM Post #19 |
Greybeard
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I'm not sure of any multiplayer game that with good intentions does this, come to think of it. Even this mod doesn't. After all haven't we changed certain item sets which now no longer work, Restricted the amount of regen on an item you are allowed to have in order to enter the sever, replaced items with newer updated versions of the same? sure, going through and manually updating every single person that is on the vault and looking at every single item and then manually changing them would take years, at least that was my perception as to why some of the older more broken items still exist in the game. I don't think we should similarly go through every character on the vault and change their race, or actively try to monitor it as the amount of time and work would not be fair for the staff. But on the same token I don't think we should encourage it, along the lines of abusing any glitch. But that's just my opinion. It honestly makes no difference to me either way. I mean, I think its human nature to desire some special niches for being part of something for a long period of time, I certainly want some! But I also understand why some one would have said this to the OP and I also understand his concerns and they aren't ill-founded. |
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| MimiFearthegn | Mar 26 2017, 04:43 PM Post #20 |
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Mistress of the Toolset / Player-Side Admin
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We do disallow some legacy things. BUT! This is largely in cases where we know it won't go away otherwise. Legacy races phase out on their own, whereas items tend to get passed around more readily. After a while, very old characters either - 1) Become used for RP only 2) Stop being played 3) Get rebuilt to take advantage of features that have come out since they were originally made So while you'll see the last wave of legacy half-outsiders still, due to the -relative- recentness in which the new half outsider race/class came out, they'll eventually dwindle to obscurity without forcing anyone to rebuild immediately. |
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Do not hesitate to send me a PM if you: - Have questions about building, or joining the Dev Team - Want to join or start an event for the Mercykillers, Fated, or Signers - You have been waiting more than 2 days for me to post in an IC forum thread | |
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| zielakxar | Mar 26 2017, 04:55 PM Post #21 |
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Prime
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Place information about this state somewhere visible for all potentially new players to see (like server rules or something), and then I would not have any problems at all since either I wouldn't play here or accept it as a server flavour/rule. But since its obviously unfair and to get this information I had to get it from other player - well I think its ok to post my concerns. Funny thing - its not just some single old maybe offended/angry at staff player that told me all of this. After I posted this topic multiple opinions from some players reached me mentioning this elitism thing about how a lot of old players feel as though they are entitled to getting what they want on the server.
Yeah - well thing is it doesn't matter how great server features are if something is rotten inside. I'm not yet sure if it is rotting since some players seem to actually share my concerns but prefer to stay anonymous. Probably because they achieved much more than I on the server and may be afraid to voice their opinions. It seems part of the community would prefer to see this problem fixed. Either do so or simply place info somewhere visible for new players and you wont hear any complains from me. Its not something I would expect, and yes it was shocking to me. I do not have any problems that there is diffrence in power both in familiarity with mechanics and character status in a RP/plot way. Problem starts when the option to play by the same rules and achieve the same somewhere in a future is non existent. |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Mar 26 2017, 05:01 PM Post #22 |
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It's not really a secret that there are legacy races, I mean there's loads of posts about it in the forums if people wanted to dig in. You can dig into suggestions and ideas forums if you want to read on the topics of wanting changes to them too. So... sorry to say, but there's no major conspiracy in regards of them, it just hasn't really been considered as a big deal to make an updated list of obsolete races when they can't even be picked.If you think that's basis of server being rotten from the core, I guess we can't help you. You'll feel what you feel. And for the record, I play only humans, I have absolutely nothing to gain from this. But I get annoyed with things that are horribly misrepresented for the sake of arguing. Also we do have a wiki, anyone can update it... so feel free to fill in the details if you believe them to be important. |
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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| Whitefly | Mar 26 2017, 05:07 PM Post #23 |
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The legacy characters are steadily being phased out. It's a natural process which will take a while, but it's better this way than forcing people to rebuild when they don't want to. |
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Moxie Anafara Angas, aka Ixsaea; delightful Xaositectiefling Kismet Saljahasa; "really friendly" air elemental sort Ravvi Beaconberry; adorable hin adventuress | |
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| Trigonometry | Mar 26 2017, 09:33 PM Post #24 |
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Prime
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On the topic of Legacy Races, let me tell you why you aren't missing out. On most cases these legacy races had a level adjustment of above +5. Think of the Arcanoloth for an example, and just had really bloated stats. They let you make some weird class combinations, but their lower character level for the sake of dispelling, as well as lower max BAB, make in most cases the newer version on a racial PRC far outdo the former at least in specific niches. For example, the Incubus used to have a level adjustment of +9. This means an Incubus could only have a max level of 21. That's a maximum of 21 BAB, and a maximum of caster level for the sake of being dispelled of your buffs of 21 (this means your buffs can be dispelled by a normal greater Dispel), your maximum caster level is 21 which means you need the greater penetration feats to even be able to penetrate SR, and finally, you'd only get one Epic Feat. The Current Incubus has a level adjustment of +3, even if it has reduced ability scores and a racial PRC of 10 levels at 3/4 AB progression and some spell progression in Warlock, Sorcerer and I think Favored Soul. The Racial PRC is also completely optional to take, which means you could just pick Incubus and not take the Racial PRC, lose out on some of the stat bonuses you'd get, but get a BAB of 27 and making a purely physical build. Or, you can make a pure caster and you'd get a personal caster level of 25, but your character level would still be maxed at 27 for the sake of being dispelled. I don't need to tell you how much of an improvement this is. If you want to powerbuild, you're not going to use a legacy race, you're going to use the new one. There are only a handful of races that I believe are still superior, like the old Djann, but overall, most old Races that have been changed have been improved. The only one that hasn't in my opinion is Half-Fiend/Celestial because of the ammount of levels the class demands, the prerequisite feats, the things it gives, and the Level Adjustment it put on you in comparison to other Races. Also, as a disclaimer, my main is a Human. |
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Characters: Karsperus Blake: The Ansalonian Self-made Noble - Fated Barbatos Zepor: The Decay Knight of Death's Belly - Doomguard Luther Ivanis: The Glantrian Death Knight - Society of Pain | |
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| zielakxar | Mar 26 2017, 10:41 PM Post #25 |
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Prime
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Well its quite obvious none or almost none of the inferior old races remain cause players will simply rebuild those which leaves only superior legacy chars. On none of the servers I played (one of which was existing for a really long time) I've experienced such situation. It's simply not acceptable to me as a new guy to play in server with policy that seems to focus and build stuff around old players mostly. But you are partially right - it seems to work for you since online compared to other servers looks decent and I can respect that. Good luck with developing your server I'm sure you'll find many new players that do not care about such issues same way as I do. It only leaves to discussion why multiple players (some seem to be playing here much longer than I did) shared my opinion on this subject but for some reason do not want to post in this topic or address it as an issue openly. Anyway I hope topic will be left here as an information to new guys coming to server so they can familiarize themselves with arguments from both sides and decide before they choose to invest their time playing here. |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Mar 26 2017, 10:54 PM Post #26 |
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Mmkay, good luck to you as well then, if that's your choice. And the topic won't get deleted if that's what you're worried of. But it'll likely gradually fade away as new topics are written. |
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Time Zones - Alignments - Name Generator NWN 2 Mechanics - PnP Mechanics - Dice Roller Character Builder - 2nd edition Monster Database - Monster Finder In-case of problems: Click Here | |
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| Tingly | Mar 26 2017, 10:56 PM Post #27 |
Blood
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Seems like this would be a bigger problem if the server was extremely competitive. I'm glad that things aren't so heavy-handed as forcing everyone to remake and pushing some hard idea of 'balance'. |
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| edmaster44 | Mar 26 2017, 11:04 PM Post #28 |
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Helena Al'Iblis - Merchant, Mother, Wife and Sensate. Stormbringer - Princess from Melechesh, Scholar of the Planes, Sign of One, One of us! | |
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| Lucadia | Mar 26 2017, 11:09 PM Post #29 |
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The server focuses around old players? Yeah I guess thats why we are losing the legacy races. This is al a conspiracy that only the oldest and elistist can have superior power over your lower ecl race. Moar stats for better roll playing. -player of a +0 ecl elf for three years and going. |
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| edmaster44 | Mar 26 2017, 11:14 PM Post #30 |
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0 Ecl master races get best classes and can use it for full advantages. |
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Helena Al'Iblis - Merchant, Mother, Wife and Sensate. Stormbringer - Princess from Melechesh, Scholar of the Planes, Sign of One, One of us! | |
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You can dig into suggestions and ideas forums if you want to read on the topics of wanting changes to them too. So... sorry to say, but there's no major conspiracy in regards of them, it just hasn't really been considered as a big deal to make an updated list of obsolete races when they can't even be picked.

12:39 AM Jul 11