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| Something I Hadn't Heard Before! | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 15 2017, 08:43 PM (1,395 Views) | |
| Darkrob | Jun 18 2017, 12:17 AM Post #16 |
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The following is my opinion simply as a player. My suggestion would be to do as I do... stay away from the medium that allows such talk. I don't go near Discord. While I support the players willing to use it, I don't support it myself. It's pretty much privately controlled so SCoD has little control over it. If it's a hostile medium, that's not the fault of SCoD... that's the fault of the moderators controlling it. Please don't use it as a part of the 'hostile community' thought process. |
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Charles Goodman - owner of The Consortium and Chairman of the Syndicate - Indep and Merkhant Daniela Nokomis- "The Enclave" - Vampiress, The woman in White, Soul Stealer, Merchant Garen Seph - Fraternity of Order B3 "You may think you have us surrounded, but in reality you have simply put us in a target rich environment." | |
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| Artifice | Jun 18 2017, 12:27 AM Post #17 |
Blood
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I appreciate your suggestion, but I have seen it and it has already formed part of my impression. Looking at the numbers a high proportion of the SCOD community both players and staff also seem to use it, with DMs and EMs having some level of moderator control? Future events are advertised there, not on the forums, and it is pushed as 'the more expedient' place to get answers on lore or builds or general server questions. Though I will be honest; I dislike using discord at the best of times and I absolutely regret having joined the SCOD discord precisely because of how its made me feel about playing here. I see your point entirely. |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Jun 18 2017, 12:43 AM Post #18 |
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Well it'd by definition be censorship, yes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone who takes censorship as a negative connotation, but it is by definition "To "censor" is to review something and to choose to remove or hide parts of it that are considered unacceptable. Censorship is the name for the process or idea of keeping things like obscene word or graphic images from an audience. There is also such a thing as self-censorship, which is when you refrain from saying certain things — or possibly re-wording them — depending on who is listening."https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/censorship And no, I'm not a supporter of what I call radicalised opinions. And neither am I saying that all should be allowed, but I do believe that you can't make the issue disappear by telling people to stop it entirely either, they are deeply seated political or philosophical views. Nor am I part of discord staff so it's not like I have much say in the matter ![]() Also with punitive actions, I was less referring to censorship and more toward bans and timeouts to put a fullstop rather than just removing content found unacceptable. If the recent waves of populism has taught me one thing, it's that better communication is required to prevent people from dividing further into two camps that absolutely abhor each other. And I don't think we're quite there yet in finding a common ground, but I'd say that given enough time it's going to be easier if we do share thoughts with each other. As for should that be considered hostile in and of itself? I'm going to leave that as a subjective individual judgement. To me it's also part of consideration that SCoD generally has advertised itself as a server aimed toward mature audience. With maturity does kind of come dealing with a broader range of opinions. On my opinion having looked at a lot of comment sections in the internet, the difference in SCoD tends to be that there can be actually a discussion rather than simply an insult fest, which, to me, speaks volumes. Especially considering how difficult the subject matter is. |
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| Scintilla | Jun 18 2017, 12:48 AM Post #19 |
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Mistress of Mayhem
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Discord isn't, and shouldn't be, compulsory. Like Rob, I don't have any intention of joining the SCoD channel for a myriad of reasons. That said, the forum rules are expected to apply to the chat so if you believe yourself on the receiving end of a rule-of-three violation (needless: profanity, spamming, harassment), it's best you take it up with one of the Admin. Screenshots are helpful. |
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| edmaster44 | Jun 18 2017, 12:55 AM Post #20 |
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As one of the many Mods in the discord, we do try our best to moderate and mediate the chats as mixh as possible, too make it a place where one can chill and chit chat, i do agree sometimes it does get heated over things like builds and discussions so get heated on when it comes to lore and general talks. In a span of minutes i read theough 500 messages in one chat room, the speed of conversations are in rapid speed, so its a bit different than moderation a forum, where things are slower, a hell of a lot slower. With the staff on board the Discord, i and many other work towards making it a chill place. I will admit it does get hectic, i have thicker skin and if some one has a different opinion, it is best to sometimes agree to disagree, i will say it has gotten a lot better than it was before and the speed of the chats might put people off, 500 messages and sometimes more. If you got some concern or if you feel some one is distruptive, please feel free to shoot me a pm on the discord or on the forums, i want the discord to be a place where one can sit relax and chit chat without having cold sweats. A hostile place is not what we want at all. |
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Helena Al'Iblis - Merchant, Mother, Wife and Sensate. Stormbringer - Princess from Melechesh, Scholar of the Planes, Sign of One, One of us! | |
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| Artifice | Jun 18 2017, 12:59 AM Post #21 |
Blood
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I appreciate the sentiment. However, it doesn't change the experience that I have had, and that I felt that way at all was brought up in response to that others had felt that way... ... So... I mean... That might be part of why some people feel the community is hostile? It's only my personal experience that I've shared. Also in response to the maturity topic specifically; maturity is dealing with these issues in a responsible way, not burying your head in the sand because people really want to make inappropriate comments. |
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| Mr_Otyugh | Jun 18 2017, 01:09 AM Post #22 |
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Well discord is a fairly new addition to SCoD and it became popular in a rapid pace, faster than the rules enforcement did really, I'd say it's a gradual process of finding the balance of teaching people to behave and removing those who can't. And I don't think people want to make inappropriate comments or offend others, sure there are some of those and they usually don't last long in any medium. More often it's a case of poor elaboration, hasty responses or untactful jests that are taken more seriously than they were ever intended. |
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| Allatum | Jun 18 2017, 01:12 AM Post #23 |
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Blood
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Some discord moderators themselves have been complicit and active in these inappropriate comments and the like. |
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| Artifice | Jun 18 2017, 01:41 AM Post #24 |
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For what it's worth, yes, in my experience that is the case. That's part of why I've never really tried to challenge it. It seemed pointless. |
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| Red the Rogue | Jun 18 2017, 03:26 AM Post #25 |
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Cutter
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For what it's worth, as one of the Discord mods, please let me know about any sort of questionable behavior going on. It's something I think we need to talk about in the way of etiquette so we can have the chat cleaned up. There's things that get posted there that even I don't like, and for those that are on there, it really helps informing us about these problems. Plus, like any other human being there, we do need to know if we're being too lenient or harsh about the content posted there. It's doing better I think, but we still need improvement there. If we're to do this, the conversations need to happen. I won't bite, I swear! |
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| Grendel | Jun 18 2017, 04:12 AM Post #26 |
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Blood
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Speaking as one of the frequent participators on the Discord and almost certainly one of the rabble-rousers responsible for a lot of foul language, my interpretation of the Discord is that it tends towards a very open interpretation of free speech; so long as you aren't needlessly vitriolic or directly offensive towards a specific person or subset of people, a lot of stuff tends to slide by. If someone does take offense to what's been said, they tend to say so, apologies are made and the chat moves on. Very rarely is it necessary for a moderator to step in on a discussion and to date there have been only a handful of bans handed down to repeat trouble-makers or extremely offensive people with unrepentant attitudes. That being said, we can't help what other people interpret the chat, and as a whole, the server, as. The server and all the products related to that are ultimately the child of the community and if the community speaks and conducts itself in a certain manner, then likeminded people will inevitably tune to that and collaborate. Those that find it runs against their grain will likewise avoid participating in the various topics discussed or avoid the Discord entirely. From what little my opinion is worth, it's not reasonable to try and convince some 20+ people to entirely change the way they casually talk, nor should we. Barring extremely divergent opinions such as hate speech and personal attacks, it's not really all that constructive to surpress the community in such a way that drives them underground and alienates them. I've seen it before countless times; official chatrooms dedicated to servers that start aggressively policing their participants inevitably either stop engaging at minimum, or worse will form their own chatrooms with an ideal of being much less moderated than the official versions. Granted it's not a universal truth, but I tend to think that if people don't like what we're putting forth and it constitutes a significant amount of what we are as a community and a server, I don't feel particularly inclined to radically change to satisfy them. Selfish, perhaps, but there's plenty of other communities out there that are a better match perhaps for them; part of what keeps things ticking over is the diversity allowed and different viewpoints presented. Going back to the core issue of perceived negativity; I'm not seeing it personally, on-server or off. There are individual cases of discontented players to some degree, but that's always going to happen. There's nothing close to the degree of hostility and aggression as seen on other servers that I've played in the past; all things considered SCOD seems fairly well adjusted with an emphasis on player liberty and freedom. Still worth examining once in a while, but nowhere near the boogeyman it's made out to be. |
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| rapsam2003 | Jun 18 2017, 05:48 AM Post #27 |
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Honestly, I think this is a huge problem on the server, the idea that we all need to tiptoe around and not try to cause any sort of offense ICly or any sort of IC conflict. Some of the best plots I participated in on servers throughout the years involved IC conflict. The staff needs to stop catering to ideas that conflict and CvC is a bad thing, imho. It's like the server, despite being set in a gritty, brutal, harsh multiverse - does everything it can to avoid IC conflict... |
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The Cambion Morthos: Athar Warlock Vaggol'cyth Krahl: Tiefling Cipher
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| Mr_Otyugh | Jun 18 2017, 10:08 AM Post #28 |
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It's not like conflict is prohibited, although mindless PvP mongering will find itself very quickly unwelcome as some people in the past have found out. Conflict has some inherent problems that generally just makes it not work out particularly well. If you are the cause of troublemaking, you are often in danger of isolating yourself from the rest of the playerbase whom desires to disassociate from you, in order to not face the same. Then there's the whole issue of law/do-gooders, practically they can actively participate in a conflict without any real risk involved, leaving a feeling of unfairness loom in the air which tends to make matters OOC. Then there's the simple issue that even after the conflict has occurred and maybe it has managed to successfully go under the radar, technically the investigation never ends, unless player interest fades, meaning that it can come back to haunt participants several months later easily. I don't think most are all that well prepared to face those, according to several attempts with empirical evidences in the past, and all of those remains as unsolved issues. From what I have been able to see, the biggest issue tends to be scopes and goals that make the conflicts already likely to fail from the start. There's no small and neutral targets that don't bear as high consequences, but which could invoke the feeling of conflict. Things like NPC organizations, real estate and political figures. Give them artificially inflated value and they can become sort of "battlegrounds" if they are presented as living entities of Sigil. |
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| MimiFearthegn | Jun 18 2017, 07:26 PM Post #29 |
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Mistress of the Toolset / Player-Side Admin
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If you detect the distant wailing of staff at the suggestion of player conflict, its because there's a 95% chance that we're about to receive complaints. Its not that we actually hate player conflict. It would be really nice to be able to have player conflict. But I've only seen it "work out" once without massive drama. |
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| Vehk | Jun 18 2017, 11:03 PM Post #30 |
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Prime
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Hello, just putting in my two cents. There has been a conflict between my character and a certain demon PC lately that has drawn together two big alliances and had several battles. Everyone on both sides has handled it well and are having fun. I am not sure why it fails in other cases, but this sort of thing fuels RP and plotting as nothing else in my opinion. |
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