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Archer; Optimizing non divine might archer
Topic Started: Apr 5 2018, 11:29 AM (387 Views)
Kotitonttu
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Prime
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There was talk about archery builds, and been theorycrafting since then with possiblity to actually try to make one if can get one planned out that would be interesting to play. No divine migth nor mystic theurges / heavy buffing required.

Wood elf or Wild elf
Ranger 21
- Archery
Half-Dragon 6
Shadowdancer 1

Race not finalized, as long racial ECL 0
Starting stats are not finalized, dex base will be 18 and all +7 lvl stats to it with gear will be 30.
Strength starting either 16 or 17 +8 half-dragon stats +great str as needed to have with gear 30 for migthy 10 bows.

Was thinking Dragon bloodlines as one of:
- Silver
- Sapphire
- Fang

Str 16 or 17
Dex 18
Con 13'ish
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 8

- Dragonic bloodline background trait
1 able learner (is this really needed...?)
3 Point Blank shot
6 Dodge
9 Mobility
12 Imp crit longbow
15 Weapon focus longbow
18 Imp fav enemy: outsider

21 Epic prowess
23 ?
25 Bane favored enemy
27 Great str 1 or ? (depending starting stats)

Some dragon levels spread pre-epic for skill point optimization.

Favored enemies:
1 Outsider
5 Undead
10 ?
15 ?
20 ?

Skills:
Hide max
Move silently max
Craft weapon 30
Craft alchemy 10
Tumble 5 (min)
Rest spread in: heal, survival, UMD, some social skill for RP

As can be seen, still having some epic feats empty and not sure on all favored enemies. Taking suggestions on which ones to choose, preferably ones that are needed in end game (especially on favored enemies). This one would get good ab, hips and atleast on paper ok dmg. Can also switch to sword & board as needed with both str/dex geared 30.

Also if got better ideas on archery builds or improvements to this, all constructive criticism is welcome.

Edit: Also, is half-dragon template class working correctly? I've read in forums that it atleast had some issues with stats/race templates, are they fixed?
Edited by Kotitonttu, Apr 5 2018, 11:31 AM.
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Lucadia
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Id ask what dodge and mobility is for

and putting points in tumble up to 20 base would give you 2 more ac. half dragon being only 2ecl, you can get up 30 tumble for 3 ac.

You likely want all your dragon levels before pre-epic as the stats granted are great feats. Taking the prc after taking an epic great feat wont stack properly.
Edited by Lucadia, Apr 5 2018, 03:15 PM.
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Kotitonttu
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Dodge and mobility are for shadowdancer to get hips both in and outdoors.

Plan is to take 4 dragon lvls pre-epic for max skillpoint usage. 5th and final half-dragon can wait for last lvl, str only for migthy anyway. Great str can be as well great dex 1 and 1 lvl up stat to str. Just to get both dex and str base final to be 25 which is easily done as half-dragon.

The favored enemies are at the moment greatest question.
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Lucadia
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Dont take any great str feats if your taking dragon on last level. Having double hips seems weird when planes are considered outdoor areas so sd is only useful if your wanting to hide in player zones.
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Kotitonttu
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Theres mention in half-dragons that not all bloodlines get wings? Anyone know do Fang dragon bloodline get wings or steadfast feat? Specifically interested in ones that do not get wings.
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Lucadia
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You get option to choose if you want wings or feat on the ui on that level you take it.

but possibly its still bugged that you get wings even if you take steadfast.
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Ninefingers
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Greybeard
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Most caves and cave-like areas are flagged as indoors, including most of the dungeon-like areas.
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konst3d
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Kotitonttu
Apr 5 2018, 11:29 AM
Wood elf or Wild elf
Ranger 21
- Archery
Half-Dragon 6
Shadowdancer 1
Why SD only 1 not 2? At level 2 you gain uncanny dodge, that allows you to retain your DEX and dodge bonus to AC being flat-footed?
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[<3]
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Some girls wander by mistake ...
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Ranger level 21 grants Combat Style (perfected).
Uncanny Dodge does not work properly anyway.
Emy - Fated - Erinyes
Casimyrah Cogsmith - Guvner - Golemcrafter
Cailin - Druidess from Tir Na Og
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Cenerae
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Tester
konst3d
Jun 18 2018, 12:41 PM
Kotitonttu
Apr 5 2018, 11:29 AM
Wood elf or Wild elf
Ranger 21
- Archery
Half-Dragon 6
Shadowdancer 1
Why SD only 1 not 2? At level 2 you gain uncanny dodge, that allows you to retain your DEX and dodge bonus to AC being flat-footed?
Uncanny Dodge is pretty underwhelming even when it works properly, and you're advocating giving up the capstone levels for either half dragon or ranger, which is not a good trade in any situation ever.
Edited by Cenerae, Jun 18 2018, 01:09 PM.
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konst3d
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Well, as far as I know, without uncanny dodge, once you fight 2+ enemies, you lose your dex and dodge bonus to AC against anybody but your current target...
So - for dexterity based characters like archers or monks, UD is absolutely must have, or you loose major part of your AC.
At least this is what I get used to believe.
And if UD isn't working (on SCoD at least), does this means that high dexterity characters can't trust its AC?
At least why fighting more than one enemy at once?
Edited by konst3d, Jun 18 2018, 04:35 PM.
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Lucadia
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You will be fine without uncanny dodge. Uncanny dodge only helps you against flanking against invisible target. Standing toe to toe and actively engaged your not going lose that ac.
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konst3d
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Thanks a lot for clarifying things, I was about to delete my dexterity toon. :)
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Oreles
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Blood
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Non-divine might, non-heavy buffing, must use a bow...

Diverging Strategies
1) Build around sneak attack and stealth
2) Build around non-stealth damage

Case 1)Assassin 9 for many-shot death attack, Rouge 10 for crippling strike -> epic precision. Craft weapon for server's custom arrows. Craft alchemy for server's poisions. More advantage in taking a small race with stealth and to hit bonus. The vampire lupus class seems to add a lot of dex, sneak attack, and survival, but there are other options.

Case 2) Ranger> fighter for focused damage. Fighter> ranger for general damage. I've always tried to forgo defense in favor of offense on archers. As a party member you don't need to be in melee. Alone you still have an animal companion and don't t have to hunt things at your level that you can't shoot down fast enough to stay out of melee, when alone.

What are the optimal bows are on the server? Craftable dragonbone bows give mighty +10. Arrow crafting rules have changed; can one craft even better arrows than arcane archer gives? More diversity in arrow selection is going to be available.

Is half dragon better than even strait ranger as far as archery is concerned?
HD -> +8str = +4 dmg - 3 attack for level adjustment
Ranger -> Favored enemy +2 = +2 focused dmg & +3 epic feats (and 3 more attack than the above)


Why mix the general and the favoured enemy focused damage? If building general damage, not enemy specific, fighter 8 for weapon focus/specialization feats. If aiming to get STR 25 (+5 Str item =30) for a dragonbone bow -> Wild Elf's +2 Str + 2 dex --> 23/23 STR/DEX (28/28 with gear); pure ranger, improved favored enemy for all favored enemies.

Generalist Archer fighter -> Two-hander and improved power attack, or improved takedown for when things are close.
Focused Ranger -> Two-hander, power attack feats and favoured power attack.
Consider taking two-weapon fighting feats, improved power attack and favoured power attack to keep leveraging the +12+2d6 (avg 19dmg a hit) favoured damage on two weapons. 18 feats, 7 improved favored enemy feats, 4 TWF feats, 2 Power attack feats, and Favoured power attack). Loosing out on +2 to hit on archery via weapon focus and epic focus.


Edited by Oreles, Jul 8 2018, 03:17 AM.
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Lucadia
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Arcane archer is a busted class with buggy abilites. The enchanting o arrows requires them to be plain arrows. New crafting can give up to 5d6 arrows or better with 7 enchant points on quives, not including the damage thats available for the bow seperately now.

Also as a ranger, that animal companion wont be able survive any areas that are in level o your target area, even on clueless.
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