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The Mystery of the Ouija board.; What Science says....
Topic Started: Feb 28 2008, 05:20 PM (2,632 Views)
Slaytanic
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Acolyte
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Spiritualistic experience or Psychological phenomenon?

Scientific explanation

The motion of the marker is explained by the ideomotor effect. A typical session with the board has two or more people touching the planchette/marker with at least one hand each, so that no single person need apply much force in order for the group as a whole to cause it to move. Each person experiences the illusion that the planchette moves under its own power.

Sceptic and magician James Randi, points out that when blindfolded, Ouija board operators are unable to produce intelligible messages. Magicians Penn & Teller performed a similar demonstration in an episode of their cable television show in which the operators moved the planchette into what they thought was the positions of "yes" and "no" without knowing that the board was turned upside-down, which caused them to move the planchette into blank spaces on the board.

Practically:

Given the surroundings or 'hype' and tension created before and during a Ouija board session, if one were to place their finger tip-down onto a solid surface, it will always not remain perfectly still. It will appear to move very very slightly, but times that by 4 or 5 finger-tips AND the subject-expectancy effect (It is a cognitive bias that occurs in science when a subject expects a given result and therefore unconsciously manipulates an experiment or reports the expected result.) it may result in movement of the marker on the Ouija board.




What is your take on this?

Do you have any experience with Ouija boards?
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Lexi
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Mistia Vevay
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"Do you have any experience with Ouija boards?"

Not really enough to add a audible response right now, and will have to do some research, then join the discussion.

I do however know two guys who indeed started off by "fooling" others around the table, but then got a nasty surprise that was not constructed by human form...
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Shadow
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I have no personal experience but would lean more to the scientific explanation, although when I was very young we played similar "games", one of them with a book and another with "yes" and "no" matches wrapped in tissue, revealing answers to questions in such a way that none of the kids present could have made the match with the answer appear from the tissue in the way it did, which was humanly impossible because of the way the matches were wrapped before asking the question.
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Slaytanic
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If you describe this "match" thing in more detail I can offer an explanation of it as best I can.
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Lexi
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Mistia Vevay
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I'm not going to get involved with the "match thing" but now that it's been mentioned, could anybody give some more details with regards to the actual Ouija board game as well please? As in describing the actual "game" and how it's supposed to work, etc. I have a basic understanding of it through discussions with other people and movies only. And where did it start?
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Shadow
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I'm not sure how to describe the match game in detail but I remember you you take two matches and write 'yes' on the one and 'no' on the other. Then you wrap them separately in a tissue or piece of toilet paper in a certain way. Children then used to ask simple questions with 'yes' or 'no' answers and the match with the right answer would reveal itself in a certain way that is not the same way both matches were folded in the first place. And it happens right in front of you.

Maybe others remember more detail?
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Slaytanic
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mmmm Not sure if I understand you correctly but a piece of toilet paper folded in a certain way CAN unfold in a different way under certain circumstances.

That or it may 'appear' to be unravelling in a different way, I need more info before falsely assuming anything.
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SileX
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I have played the Ouija board a few times, and I agree with Slaytanic on his findings. I noticed when the other people were playing the Ouija board, they did manage to perform certain words sensible, but mostly "yes" or "no" type of questions were asked.
On the times when I participated, I established that I could control the planchette movement, and the letters pointed out never made sense (Example: XDV5AN), then after a few times I even named out the letters beforehand, and the letters followed as I named them.

There is only one instance which I believe a "real" Ouija session: I returned from work the afternoon in 2006, and when I entered the flat I found that there was 5 people busy Ouija Board in the living room. I immediately became upset because I believe that you do not interrupt or enter and room while someone is busy on the Ouija board, or any other private esoteric art. I continued to watch while they were busy, and was convinced to join soon afterwards (On most of the previous sessions I did not open the Board), and I decided to open the board. After the board was opened the people started asking their questions, at first I was a bit confused, as I did not have the control I had on the previous sessions, and presumed it may be because of the new person attending influencing the planchette. After everybody was done, it was agreed that I may end the session. Before I could start closing "ritual" the planchette started moving anticlockwise (as far as I could remember) in circles around the board. I immediately felt that something was different, and could "feel" that this "presance" is not friendly. The planchette started moving faster and faster around the board and it felt like everyone's fingers was glued to the planchette. I actually started to feel weaker and almost drawn to it, and started to panic, and knew I needed to stop it, before something happens that might hurt someone, I then loudly said "stop", and the planchette stopped. I tried to close the session, but the planchette refused to move on my statements, I repeated myself and the session came to a close successfully.
If that was an valid Ouija Board session I don't know, but is felt very real, but nobody else felt a presance which made me doubt. Please feel free to comment or ask questions.

There is another sort "yes / no" game that is popular called "Book & Key" where a key is fastened at the top middle of the book, with front part of the key sticking out (A double sided key used on safety doors). It's played by two persons sitting opposite from each other, with each holding the book in the air with their pinky fingers either side of the key balancing it steady. It also has an opening "ritual" to perform, and afterwards you ask the book a question, and the book will turn either left or right representing yes or no. Don't know if any of you ever played it before, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Last but not least, the match stick "yes / no / maybe" mystery. 3 Matches are used, and yes written on the one, no on the second one, and maybe on the last match. 3 toilet ply's is used as well, each match placed in the middle of the toilet ply's, and the ply is then fold over (point to point) and then ply is rolled up starting from the match. After the matches is securely roled in between the sheets, you ask your question, and then proceed unrolling each ply. Your answer will be the ply with the match that is no longer within the ply but loose on top after unrolling it. This one baffles me, as I cannot think of an logical answer to explain how this could occur?



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Slaytanic
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Sorry, it's 3AM so my brain seems to be tired, but can you rephrase "loose on top after unrolling it" please?

And one question, how many people were involved in the Ouija board session the first time when you had control compared to the other account?
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Lexi
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I know I asked before, and maybe nobody is certain. But are there certain rules and guidelines to follow when "playing" the so called ouiji board? And what is the real "supposed" purpose behind it?
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Shadow
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Check Wikipedia. You'll probably get the most accurate summary of what it's all about there. I'm busy doing some studies on it myself to at least try and contribute something.
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SileX
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Slaytanic
Mar 8 2008, 03:02 AM
Sorry, it's 3AM so my brain seems to be tired, but can you rephrase "loose on top after unrolling it" please?

And one question, how many people were involved in the Ouija board session the first time when you had control compared to the other account?

Find attached a very crude sketch I made with Mspaint quickly that should clear up what I mean (I hope)

Most of the times it was either 3 or 4 people, and the last account explained had 5 people playing if I could remember correctly.
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Slaytanic
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mmmm tried googling this but couldn't find anything. It is either localized or it goes by another name internationally.

I will have to fold some paper myself and test it out, or attend an actual 'game' of this.
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SileX
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Yes, such an experience might just be beneficial.
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Slaytanic
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I've stood in rooms where people claimed to be seeing 'things' and getting 'trances' before, so I am less susceptible to mass hysteria :P
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SileX
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*laughs* I'm sure...
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Lexi
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After asking twice and being too scared to wonder in too deep myself, your continuous fascination with the "match game" showed me the light to actually go and find out stuff about Ouji boards etc... It's after all our main topic *sigh*

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This is THE Ouija board that started it all from Kennard Novelty Company. It was assembled of five separate boards joined side by side and braced by two vertical slats on the back. Stamped on the reverse side is the patent date: Feb 10th 1891.

Some believe it started as a simple board game, as people were much more in touch with their "spiritual" side back then, and nobody ever really expected to communicate with the "dead", although many hoped to...

In following years changes were made and different versions of the board came into existence. The reason being that although no hard proof existed, there were lots of evidence, that if used correctly, by placing your finger on a glass object on the board, and seriously wanting to connect to someone in the "after life", a person's questions would be answered by the "spirit" they called back from the "dead" just for a little while...

Many were scared after such an experience, claiming that "bad" spirits communicated to them, sometimes shouting or even getting violent...

I think living in old houses actually did that to them, and when a group had a session together, it was just so much fun for younger generations to manipulate the answers, just to see the fear it created.

Serious Spiritualists (who were mostly the scientists then, based on having the highest education) believed Ouija boards could be used to make actual contact with the spirit world, the board itself having no intrinsic power in and of itself, but rather, used simply as a tool to aid a medium while in communication with the spirit world.


Then...

In a later century the dark Mr Crowley has stated of the Ouija Board, that, "There is, however, a good way of using this instrument to get what you want, and that is to perform the whole operation in a consecrated circle, so that undesirable aliens cannot interfere with it. You should then employ the proper magical invocation in order to get into your circle just the one spirit you want. It is comparatively easy to do this. A few simple instructions are all that is necessary, and I shall be pleased to give these, free of charge, to any one who cares to apply.

What a load of crapulence!

From then on the board got an "evil" meaning attached to it, fired on by other occurrences in time, and although people still argue about the authenticity of communication through it today, a lot of people, even non-believers, wouldn't want to be stuck in a room where a session is taking place.

So, my perception is that it's a kind of board game, and I believe it can easily be manipulated, especially in today's world, with technological gadgets.

BUT, after reading up a lot about the history, and seeing so much evidence of different people in different eras who experienced spiritual communication, it can't just be dismissed as something that is not possible and has never happened! Unless at least half of the Western world was part of a "conspiracy" for many different time periods.

The same could possibly be said about the match sticks or key game? I for one though, would rather light the matches, make sure there's no Ouija board in the room, and lock the door behind me with the key when I leave!
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Slaytanic
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lol I wouldn't mind attempting to use one to test it. Maybe film it as well.
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Lexi
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Let's rather not and say we did... *naughty wink*
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Slaytanic
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Why? Chicken? :o

=P
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Lexi
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Mistia Vevay
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Nope, just careful because I do have certain experiences in my past and in my every day life, and they are very real, not needing a Ouija board to remind me of what is possible and what not.

On that note Mr Moderator of this forum, are we getting somewhere with the actual discussion you posted? What's the take on Ouija boards??
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We must have sympathy for the loser.
We must help the poor.
But let us also cheer
For the doer, the achiever.
- Vince Lombardi -
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Slaytanic
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Well In my opinion, in the second experience, there were more people, which may have had a greater influence on the Ouija board marker than the 1st time, so it might have felt uncontrollable.

Also, the fact that Silex didn't start the second game,but joined a few others playing, subconsciously he felt not in 'control'. And therefore his mindset was at a difference place when playing the game, which had its varying effects.

I never rule out Mass hysteria. The fact that the game is usually played with a few people shows me that Mass hysteria has a greater role in actually seeing or experiencing 'effects' than we give it credit.

Just my opinion.
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-D H Lawrence
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Lexi
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In this instance I have to agree. But I still wonder how so many different people in the past experienced exactly the same thing, with different people, living in different time periods...
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But let us also cheer
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Slaytanic
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Human psychological behaviour tends to remain somewhat the same to a certain degree. I am sure kids in 15th century thought they saw a "monster" in their closet too.
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Lexi
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Hey guys, are we still going somewhere with this topic? Very different but interesting viewpoints expressed, and none completely new... But still the same question: Does the Ouija board qualify as a tool to call up spirits, and has anybody been part of a REAL experience where it was done? As in, the spirit spoke? Very fascinated by this topic, but still way too scared to ever play the game!

:o
Edited by Lexi, Jul 29 2008, 01:48 AM.
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